File contents

01:31 <CosmicRay> *GAVEL*
01:32 <cdlu> hey OF
01:39 <CosmicRay> [item 1, opening] This meeting of the Board of Software in the Public Interest, Inc., is called to order.
01:39 <CosmicRay> PLEASE NOTE: Our agenda for today, AND all the resolutions and minutes we will be voting on, are online at:
01:39 <CosmicRay> http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/
01:39 <CosmicRay> [item 2, roll call] Board members, please state your name for the record.  Others present may /msg cdlu with your full name if you wish to be listed in the records.
01:39 <CosmicRay> We have 9 board members, so quorum for today is 6.
01:44 <CosmicRay> We have regrets from Jimmy today.
01:47 <Overfiend> Branden Robinson
01:50 <cdlu> David Graham
01:50 <CosmicRay> John Goerzen
01:56 <cdlu> <Joey> Martin Schulze
02:10 <cdlu> Bdale, mako?
02:43 <Overfiend> Now that I've met Joey in person, and even slept in the same room as he has, I can confidently say he's not nearly as perverse in real life as he is in IRC.  I guess we'll never know why he won't speak his own name at these meetings.  :)
02:53 * Overfiend grins at Joey
03:03 <cdlu> Overfiend, heh
03:14 <CosmicRay> Overfiend: careful, you might not be allowed to sleep in the same room down south ;-)
03:34 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: I was going to make a similar joke involing Ean Schuessler...
03:38 <CosmicRay> heh
03:42 <Joey> Overfiend: You don't know me.
03:50 <Overfiend> Joey: I do a little bit! :)
03:54 <CosmicRay> sigh.  holding at 4...
03:55 <Joey> No.
03:57 <cdlu> CosmicRay, we can attempt to carry on with the meeting... if we get to a vote we can come back to it
04:03 <Overfiend> Joey: not even?
04:20 <CosmicRay> cdlu: I guess we could.   shall we?
04:30 <cdlu> can't lose anything by trying
04:35 <cdlu> diziet's second unexcused
04:37 <Overfiend> cdlu: Do have any meeting minutes ready to be posted to the website?
04:42 <CosmicRay> ok.
04:47 <Overfiend> It looks kinda, uh, bad to not have any items since April or so
04:56 <Joey> the agenda is.. um... strange...
05:01 <Joey> Is there an agenda?
05:03 <cdlu> Overfiend, actually, yeah, a few. I haven't sent a big update to -announce I need to send, because I haven't prepared it, because, well. No because.
05:08 <cdlu> Joey, yes.
05:08 <CosmicRay> Joey: it's the 9/20 one
05:32 <mako> yes
05:34 <cdlu> mako!
05:34 <Joey> CosmicRay: Oh... still...
05:41 <CosmicRay> five!
05:43 <Overfiend> one more, if we can muster it
05:46 <mako> Benjamin Mako Hill
05:49 <Joey> cdlu: please start
05:51 <Joey> CosmicRay: please report
05:51 <cdlu> bdale is orbiting near by
05:54 <CosmicRay> ok, we can start with the agenda anyway...
05:54 <bdale> Bdale
05:57 <Overfiend> hot damn
05:58 <cdlu> quorum!
06:00 <CosmicRay> all right!
06:03 <CosmicRay> [item 3, president's update]
06:03 <CosmicRay> Nothing to report this month that won't be covered under other items.
06:03 <CosmicRay> [item 4, treasurer's report] Jimmy sent the report to us.  Is there any discussion?
06:09 <cdlu> this meeting, now under way for 2 weeks and 6 minutes, is now under way :)
06:24 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: just a couple of things to mention
06:32 <CosmicRay> ok
06:41 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: If the Board hasn't yet read it, I ask them to please read my update re: Frank Boardman from MBS
06:45 <Overfiend> mailed yesterday
06:56 <CosmicRay> got it, informative, thanks.
07:03 <Overfiend> also, I uh, had a separate envelope of August donations that I hadn't deposited
07:05 <Overfiend> so I'll be making 2 deposites shortly
07:10 <Overfiend> more August, and all of September
07:24 <Overfiend> I was confused because I had the usual amount of money for a month in August before
07:30 <Overfiend> so actually, donations are up
07:52 <cdlu> Overfiend, the money from linuxfund.org is flowing?
08:03 <Overfiend> Also, MBS has sent us a bill for, IIRC $240 (2 hrs @ $120/hr)
08:12 <Overfiend> I think this goes beyond Jimmy's budget.
08:15 * Joey was happy to read it.
08:16 <Overfiend> I suggest payint it.
08:33 <cdlu> Overfiend, his budget was "anything reasonably necessary" to get our books in order, iirc.
08:34 <CosmicRay> Overfiend: yes, please ;-)
08:34 <Overfiend> cdlu: Yes.  They usually disburse at the butt end of the month, so I haven't gotten September's yet.
08:42 <cdlu> ok
08:44 <Overfiend> cdlu: acknowledged.  I'll just pay it, then.
09:04 <bdale> Overfiend: if we're operating on cash basis, it doesn't really matter when they do it, the money is ours when it's ours
09:04 * mako nods to cdlu, Overfiend
09:07 <Overfiend> Microsoft never did get back to us about their Matching Gifts program.
09:23 <cdlu> Overfiend, how about Mr. Lynch with our decade-old donations he found? :)
09:24 <mako> Overfiend: i should have asked them when i was up there last week ;)
09:42 <Overfiend> cdlu: lemme check my inbox, but I still hadn't heard anything, hence my ping of him yesterday
09:50 <Overfiend> bdale: acknowledged, I'm just...meticulous I guess
09:50 <cdlu> right, I was wondering if he'd responded to that
10:03 <CosmicRay> are we going to do anything about the request from someone to give us something from a grant?
10:06 <Overfiend> oh, yeah
10:14 <Overfiend> cdlu: I got a vacation message, and bounced ti to the board.
10:18 <Overfiend> s/ti/to/
10:21 <bdale> CosmicRay: that's the one where they needed a deliverable?
10:26 <CosmicRay> right
10:28 <cdlu> oh right
10:38 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: I would rather have Greg look at that first, I'm a bit nervous.
10:45 <CosmicRay> I can send them a sorry-we-cant-do-that letter if need be
10:54 <CosmicRay> didn't he already say he was nervous about it too?
10:54 <Overfiend> I mean, he *has*, sort of.
10:57 <Overfiend> Yes, he did
11:02 <Overfiend> Message-ID: <OF2378842D.669D5D94-ON8525708C.0060B18D-8525708C.006EABF7@cgsh.com>
11:22 <Overfiend> I'd go up there and teach a seminar if they'd pay my expenses :)
11:24 <bdale> I'd thank them for wanting to be generous and decline, personally.
12:05 <CosmicRay> is there consensus on that?  if so, I'll send them a note
12:21 <Overfiend> cdlu: anyway, I'll pester Mr. Lynch again on, uh, Monday the 10th I guess.
12:28 <Overfiend> Let him have Friday to catch up on his mail.
12:43 <cdlu> Overfiend, sounds good. I guess we'll commission Ean to write apologies to those donations, too. :)
12:47 * Overfiend moves to do as CR and bdale suggested.
12:59 <CosmicRay> ok, I'll do that then.
13:12 <CosmicRay> are we done with the treasurer's report?
13:13 <Overfiend> cdlu: bwa ha.  Nah, he wouldn't enjoy that this time.  He can't be (justfifiably) mad at me while doing it :)
13:37 <cdlu> CosmicRay ,I think so.
13:41 <CosmicRay> [item 5, outstanding minutes] None to vote on.  Any discussion?
13:48 <Overfiend> PLEASE PUT THEM UP ON THE WEBSITE
13:54 <cdlu> Overfiend, yessir.
14:06 <CosmicRay> the resolutions page too
14:06 <Overfiend> thank you, that fulfills my yelling quota for the meeting.
14:09 <CosmicRay> heh
14:19 <cdlu> Overfiend, phew. I got off easy. I've seen what you can do. :)
14:24 <CosmicRay> ok, anything else on this topic?
14:33 <Overfiend> cdlu: hey, I'm a sweetheart these days
14:38 <CosmicRay> cdlu: try /nick sanders someday
14:43 <Overfiend> you mean /nick cas
14:52 <CosmicRay> yeah
14:55 <CosmicRay> [item 6, tax filing/bookkeeping status] Mako/Jimmy/Branden, you have the floor.
15:05 <cdlu> now don't speak all at once...
15:09 <CosmicRay> I guess we talked about this a bit
15:12 <Overfiend> I don't have anything to offer beyond what I already said during the Treasurer's report.
15:12 <CosmicRay> anything else to cover?
15:13 <mako> i haven't actually been involved in this recently
15:18 <mako> so nothing from my end
15:26 <mako> i also no longer live in new york city
15:33 <cdlu> mako, where do you now live?
15:36 <Overfiend> Beantown
15:37 <mako> boston
15:43 <mako> i started at the mit media lab
15:50 <Overfiend> No, you stahhhted
15:58 <Overfiend> and eat lots of lobstah!
15:59 <mako> bah :)
15:59 <cdlu> mako, cool, good to know. You'll be within range of me meeting you when I visit my inlaws. :)
16:09 <mako> cdlu: excellent
16:09 <Overfiend> mako: which one?  there are many bahs in Bahstan
16:14 <CosmicRay> oh that sounds great.  mixing of inlaws with spi.
16:18 <mako> i am going to NYC pretty frequently
16:25 <CosmicRay> [item 6, DCC issues] Mako, you have the floor.
16:27 <mako> ever 3 weeks it seems
16:28 <Overfiend> OH yeah
16:30 <CosmicRay> anyway, moving on...
16:30 <Overfiend> wait wait
16:31 <Overfiend> one more item
16:33 <CosmicRay> ok
16:35 <Overfiend> MBS item
16:37 <Overfiend> Just FYI.
16:54 <Overfiend> Frank asked for, and I gave him, the username and password to the FirstIB website for our account.
16:58 <Overfiend> It's part of the relationship.
17:03 <CosmicRay> ok.
17:06 <CosmicRay> good to know, thanks.
17:12 <Overfiend> that's all
17:20 <CosmicRay> ok.  on to DCC then.
17:49 <mako> i haven't been actively involved since the delegation went to don
17:55 <mako> dondelelcaro: are you aroun?
18:02 * dondelelcaro waves
18:04 <Overfiend> ah, excellent.
18:11 <CosmicRay> feel free to fill us in on
18:17 <CosmicRay> ... err, everything
18:27 <Overfiend> uh, damn, either Ian's confused or I am
18:29 <mako> dondelelcaro: is there anything you can/want to say about the DCC mark issues?
18:36 * bdale is a close observer, too
18:39 <cdlu> OF, ?
18:42 <Overfiend> I just spoke with Ian this morning and he said the http://www.dccalliance.org/ site has a disclaimer on the front page
18:48 <Overfiend> he said it has for a couple of weeks now
18:50 <Overfiend> but I don't see one
18:54 <dondelelcaro> basically, the story is that DCC is moving slowly; I should have an announcement about it shortly.... unless they've already made a move.
19:18 <bdale> dondelelcaro: have you talked to Meskes about the sub-project effort yet?
19:19 <Overfiend> imurdock told me that they've decided to make "DCC" a recursive acronym for "DCC Common Core"
19:39 <Overfiend> of course, even after this is official (it may be already), the press continues to screw it up
19:51 <mako> Overfiend: well, that's understandable
19:59 <mako> and not only because the press ALWAYS screws this up :)
20:01 <Overfiend> http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2005092901526NWDBSW
20:04 <mako> things up even
20:08 * bdale points at http://alioth.debian.org/projects/d-enterprise/
20:13 <dondelelcaro> bdale: he's mentioned it, but I don't really have much to do with whether or not they become a sub project...
20:23 <Overfiend> yeah, tell me about it.  I've now been quoted completely inaccurately on CNet
20:38 <bdale> dondelelcaro: my point is that it's happening, and it might affect their use of the mark
20:40 <mako> Overfiend: i don't think i've every been quoted accurately and in appropriate context
20:41 <Overfiend> Apparently I have opinions about the defensibility of the Linux trademark.  News to me.
20:43 * Hydroxide is stupidly missing class for not-very-good reasons unrelated to SPI, but as long as I happen to be here -- hi guys
20:49 <Overfiend> excellent
20:57 <Overfiend> you haven't missed any voted
20:57 <Overfiend> votes.
21:08 <Hydroxide> ok
21:30 <Overfiend> Hydroxide: anything you want to say about Treasurer/bookkeeping/accounting stuff after we're done with the DCC/trademark item?
21:30 <CosmicRay> it sounds like there is no action that SPI needs to be taking at this time
21:34 <CosmicRay> is that correct?
21:41 <cdlu> CosmicRay, want to vote to approve treasurer's report?
21:46 <dondelelcaro> bdale: for the sub project; but a non-related commercial entity (which is what I assume the DCC will continue to be) still has issues...
21:54 <Overfiend> I think SPI is taking action through its member project Debian, in the form of Don Armstrong.
21:58 <dondelelcaro> anyway; yes... there's basically nothing to report at this time.
22:00 <Hydroxide> Overfiend: I've said everything I have to say about those issues already
22:00 <CosmicRay> cdlu: oh yeah.  we'll come back to that in a minute, thanks.
22:03 <CosmicRay> Overfiend: ok.
22:14 <Overfiend> Don is in negotiations with the alleged infringer and it is clear we take Debian's mark seriously.
22:28 <bdale> dondelelcaro: I understand.  just want to make sure you remain aware of the actions and are thinking about how that might affect the overall picture
22:39 <CosmicRay> all right.  we can note that in the minutes and leave it at then, I guess.
22:39 <Hydroxide> regarding the DCC/trademark issues, we do need to ensure for legal enforceability reasons that the press stops calling them the Debian Common Core Alliance once they are officially no longer called that
22:42 <dondelelcaro> bdale: cool; yeah.
22:47 <mako> if debian decides to offer a license, i'd be happy to get involved again with greg to help get an agreement i think we can live with
22:49 <Hydroxide> since it is causing consumer confusion about the relationship
22:58 <Overfiend> That Don has not launched air strikes on DCC Alliance member companies should not be interpreted as a failure to defend the mark.
23:11 <Overfiend> Hydroxide: er, isn't it hard to tell the press anything?
23:15 <dondelelcaro> Hydroxide: right; I've suggested that they issue a press release to that effect; Debian itself can always issue one if the press continues to screw it up.
23:18 <Overfiend> I mean, and have them listen?
23:19 <cdlu> Overfiend, depends who you talk to :)
23:31 * CosmicRay points out that cdlu is a member of the press
23:32 <bdale> Overfiend: you can tell 'em what you want, the hard part is getting them to listen+understand...
24:05 <Hydroxide> dondelelcaro, Overfiend: I might suggest that Debian and DCCA issue a joint press release to clarify the relationship and naming, and we and DCCA can also send clarificational corrections to the major tech sites that keep making the mistakes
24:48 <Overfiend> Sounds like a good idea to me, but I've delegated decision-making authority on this to Don.  At least as DPL.  As an SPI Board member, I guess I kinda retain some authority.
24:55 * Overfiend tips over from all the hats piled up on his head.
24:58 <CosmicRay> heh
25:18 <CosmicRay> well, don is reading this so he can take it as a suggestion
25:21 <Overfiend> yeah.
25:24 <dondelelcaro> Hydroxide: that's a good idea... pretty much along the lines of what I've been suggesting to Ian... anyway; my first job is to resolve the trademark issue itself, then later tackle the ramifications of the infringement
25:37 <CosmicRay> are we ready to move on to the next topic then?
25:46 * Hydroxide thinks so
25:51 <CosmicRay> [item 6, OFTC elections] cdlu, you have the floor.
25:52 <Overfiend> dondelelcaro: I suggest asking the DCCA to add whatever disclaimer of affiliation with Debian imurdock thinks is already present to the *front page* of their website.
25:57 <Overfiend> I wasn't done.  :-P
25:58 <Overfiend> Now I am.
26:05 <cdlu> CosmicRay, ok.
26:06 <dondelelcaro> Overfiend: heh
26:14 <cdlu> OFTC's elections are coming up on the 8th. I believe that's Friday.
26:27 <CosmicRay> saturday
26:28 <cdlu> Last election, we ran the election off SPI's servers with software written by, I think, weasel...
26:29 <Overfiend> no, that's Saturday
26:30 <cdlu> ok
26:51 <cdlu> We'd need to reactive that and have a non-OFTC affiliated SPI person keep an eye on elections.
26:59 <cdlu> that disqualifies both me and Hydroxide.
27:01 <Overfiend> any volunteers? :)
27:08 <Overfiend> what's Hydroxide's affiliation?
27:20 <CosmicRay> perhaps wiggy or weasel would be willing to do both?
27:26 <cdlu> Overfiend, he's a member of OFTC's staff
27:30 <Overfiend> cdlu: oh ah.
27:32 <weasel> I don't think I qualify either :)
27:41 <cdlu> CosmicRay, weasel is not qualified either.. he is on the core committee
27:53 <CosmicRay> oh right.
27:55 <cdlu> CosmicRay, wiggy ran it last time, with the help of mako, I believe.
27:58 <Overfiend> Let's make Diziet do it, as punishment for 2 unregretted absences.
28:10 <cdlu> Overfiend, he made it last time...
28:13 <mako> i was just a rubber stamp :)
28:41 <cdlu> sorry about that
28:46 <Overfiend> cdlu: I didn't say "in a row" :)
28:56 <cdlu> someone query me the last few lines for the meeting log please? :)
29:21 <Overfiend> you didn't miss anything important
29:26 <Overfiend> can we get wiggy to do this?
29:37 <Overfiend> oh, but you're the minutes man
29:43 <cdlu> Overfiend, we can't volunteer him if that's what you mean
29:49 <cdlu> I got the log for the record
29:58 <cdlu> thanks everyone who sent it :)
30:03 * cdlu applies fire extinguisher
30:09 <Overfiend> ok
30:13 <CosmicRay> heh
30:21 <Overfiend> No, I mean, does anyone have reason to believe wiggy would be willing?
30:33 <CosmicRay> well, let's ask him.
30:36 <cdlu> Overfiend, I'm sure he'd be willing if we ask him a month ago.
30:41 <cdlu> giving anyone 3 days notice is tight
30:43 <Overfiend> :)
30:53 <cdlu> thus why it was on the agenda for the original timeslot for this meeting some ... two weeks ago :)
30:56 <Overfiend> I really can't take it on, I'm behind on about 20 things as it is.
31:05 <CosmicRay> >wiggy< question is coming up during our meeting: any chance you'd be willing to operate the SPI voting software for OFTC's election in Saturday?
31:24 <CosmicRay> do we have a fallback plan if he says no?
31:25 <Overfiend> go, President, actually asking him and stuff.
31:40 <cdlu> CosmicRay, also for the record, the current chair of OFTC is ElectricElf and he would be responsible for coordinating any volunteers. At this point, I'm just the messenger.
31:42 <Overfiend> do we NEED a fallback?
31:58 <CosmicRay> well, if wiggy says no, somebody still has to do it, right?
32:08 <cdlu> we can get volunteers to do a hand-count on mailed in ballots if worse comes to worst.
32:09 <Overfiend> I was asking more whether we need 2.
32:15 * Hydroxide notes, reading scrollback, that the August 2005 treasurer's report was not actually approved, and is confused about what the relationship is between the $240 MBS bill and the $1000 MBS retainer. To be discussed after the OFTC thing, probably.
32:35 <Joey> we could ask manoj if he would be willing and delegate to him
32:35 <CosmicRay> Hydroxide: ok, we'll get to those in a bit, thanks.
32:55 <Overfiend> Joey: Manoj would probably only run devotee, which is a slightly different voting method.
33:11 <Overfiend> Joey: what wiggy implemented was very strict Condorcet Cloneproof/SSD
33:32 <Overfiend> Joey: what Debian uses is hacked up a little bit in ways that, we are assured, do not compromise its mathematical rigor
33:37 <cdlu> SPI's elections do not use Condorcet... we use straight Borda.
33:43 <Overfiend> cdlu: no we don't.
33:43 <cdlu> sorry, OFTC's
33:49 <Overfiend> oha h
34:11 <Hydroxide> Borda definitely has inferiorities relative to Condorcet, but this is certainly not the place for that discussion as regards OFTC.
34:13 <Overfiend> (Debian adds explicit tie votes and "none of the above" to Condorcet Cloneproof/SSD)
34:16 <Overfiend> Agreed.
34:38 <CosmicRay> ok, do we have a real plan coming out of all of this? :-)
34:43 * CosmicRay notes wiggy hasn't replied yet
34:47 <cdlu> Hydroxide, OFTC's needs are different from SPI's and Debian's. Due to the fact that all candidates vote for all candidates for all posititions, Borda is a far superior solution.
34:58 <Overfiend> I think we need to punt on it and beg for help.
35:14 <Overfiend> or ask OFTC to delay their elections.
35:17 <Overfiend> with our apologies.
35:18 <cdlu> Overfiend, to put it simply, if this is deferred to beyond meeting, nothing will happen.
35:26 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: Not gonna happen, but we can probably arrange for it ourselves
35:31 <Overfiend> balls.
35:41 <cdlu> And the OFTC constitution has no accounting for delays, but also does not require SPI to handle them. We do that for openness reasons.
35:47 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: Would it be possible for SPI to receive/record the votes and forward them to vote-counters? Can be entirely automatic
35:59 <cdlu> ah, EE, hi.
36:03 <Overfiend> EE: I've never done *any* kind of admin work on SPI boxen.
36:04 * cdlu lets him do all the talking :)
36:17 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: (That way, you guys don't need to put in a huge amount of effort, but SPI would still be available if there was a conflict. None is expected though.)
36:20 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: Who does?
36:25 <Overfiend> I don't have root, I don't know where the voting software is or what lang it's written in, and I don't know what MTA we use.
36:29 <cdlu> noone currently on board, afaik.
36:32 <CosmicRay> wiggy and joy, afaik.
36:33 <Overfiend> EE: Joy and Wiigy
36:34 <ElectricElf> Okay
36:38 <ElectricElf> I'll get in touch with them
36:44 <ElectricElf> We're talking about MTA-only stuff here
36:45 <ElectricElf> Nothing fancy
36:48 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: Do we need to put out a call for new admins?
36:53 <ElectricElf> Is the Board happy enough with that, though?
36:57 <Overfiend> ElectricElf: don't ask me to do MTA config, I *always* fuck it up
37:03 <CosmicRay> Overfiend: might not hurt, but it would probably be polite to ask them first
37:03 <ElectricElf> (Assuming we can get an admin on it ;)
37:08 <CosmicRay> ElectricElf: that is fine with me.
37:09 <Overfiend> as lurkers in #d-d can tell you every time I need to change it
37:11 <ElectricElf> CosmicRay: Thanks
37:20 <Overfiend> last time I needed to make a change it took me 9 iterations
37:23 <ElectricElf> cdlu: Acceptable?
37:23 <CosmicRay> hah
37:32 <cdlu> ElectricElf, works for me.
37:35 <ElectricElf> cdlu: (You being on both board-equivalents... :)
37:37 <ElectricElf> Rightey-o
37:39 <ElectricElf> That's settled
37:41 <ElectricElf> Thanks folks :)
37:52 <CosmicRay> ok, cool.  always like it when someone volunteers to take care of things ;-)
37:56 * Overfiend extends OFTC his apologies for us not being on the ball
38:07 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: We're not either
38:09 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: Bit sad frankly
38:13 <ElectricElf> Overfiend: Anyways, think nothing of it
38:18 <cdlu> Overfiend, aw hell, this is SO much better than a couple of years ago. :)
38:19 <CosmicRay> now, back to treasurer reports then?
38:26 <Overfiend> cdlu: True.
38:49 <Hydroxide> CosmicRay: sounds good
38:50 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: Okay by me.
39:09 <CosmicRay> Jimmy, you were saying we never approved a report.  Was that the report delivered in september that should have been voted on 9/20, or something else?
39:19 <cdlu> CosmicRay, this is the September meeting :)
39:19 <CosmicRay> because this is really the 9/20 meeting ;-)
39:27 <cdlu> CosmicRay, I reminded you about 15 minutes ago that we needed to vote on it :)
39:45 <CosmicRay> cdlu: I know, what I'm talking about it
39:47 <CosmicRay> * Hydroxide notes, reading scrollback, that the August 2005 treasurer's report was not actually approved, and is confused about what the relationship is between the $240 MBS bill and the $1000 MBS retainer. To be discussed after the OFTC thing, probably.
39:50 <CosmicRay> s/it/is/
39:58 <Overfiend> The report *for* August was issued in September.
40:02 <Hydroxide> yeah, that's what I'm referring to
40:10 <Overfiend> We don't know what August's numbers are until the month has ended.
40:15 <cdlu> the report for august is what we were discussing and need to vote on today. the other part, I'll let Jimmy explain.
40:16 <CosmicRay> ok.  just double checking that you meant the report covering august, not the one issued in august.
40:26 <Hydroxide> it right
40:28 <CosmicRay> in that case, are we ready to vote on that august 2005 report?
40:41 <Hydroxide> me speak english
40:46 <Overfiend> Hydroxide: Jimmy, did you catch that not *all* deposits from August have been made?
40:56 <Overfiend> I hosed up and made two envelopes absent-mindedly.
41:05 <Hydroxide> Overfiend: the way I've been accounting, I count donations in the month when they are deposited, as I've been saying in every report
41:14 <Overfiend> Just wanted to let you know
41:14 <Hydroxide> Overfiend: precisely because of things like that
41:17 <bdale> Hydroxide: good.  that's the way it should be done.
41:18 <Overfiend> bdale corrected me the same way :)
41:19 <Hydroxide> Overfiend: I did see that
41:22 <Overfiend> okay.
41:25 * Overfiend shuts up for a few seconds.
41:32 <CosmicRay> shall we vote then?
41:39 <Hydroxide> sure
41:44 <CosmicRay> this vote is to approve the August 2005 treasurer report.
41:47 <CosmicRay> !vote start
41:48 <Hydroxide> !vote yes
41:49 <Overfiend> !vote yes
41:50 <bdale> !vote yes
41:51 <CosmicRay> !vote yes
41:53 <mako> !vote yes
41:56 <Overfiend> no bot.
41:57 <CosmicRay> cdlu: hello, votebot ;-)
41:59 <Hydroxide> !summon votebot
42:04 <Joey> !vote yes
42:11 <cdlu> !vote yes
42:16 <cdlu> sorry, someone walked in
42:18 <CosmicRay> that looks like everyone
42:21 <cdlu> approved!
42:23 <CosmicRay> !vote stop
42:38 <Overfiend> Hydroxide: What quarterly AmEx Fin Adv statements are you missing from e?
42:42 <Overfiend> I will batch 'em and fax 'em.
42:42 <CosmicRay> ok, now the question about the MBS fee?
43:03 <Hydroxide> Overfiend: I haven't received one for Q2 2005
43:12 <Overfiend> So, April 15 to July 15.  Okay.
43:26 <Hydroxide> CosmicRay: yeah. Overfiend said they billed for $240, but I definitely gave them a $1000 retainer check, which they cashed
43:35 <Overfiend> I'm not sure fees come out of a retainer.
43:38 <Hydroxide> so I'm wondering if that is somehow not covered by the retainer
43:45 <Hydroxide> what does?
43:50 <CosmicRay> Hydroxide: could you ask them directly?
43:53 <Overfiend> I don't honestly know what "retainer" means in great detail.
44:01 <Overfiend> It's more than just a "deposit", apparently.
44:07 <Hydroxide> it was in the letter of engagement. I probably have a copy of it somewhere
44:09 <CosmicRay> well, it could just be a deposit
44:15 <cdlu> I'd assume it's like a deposit, that covers bills we fail to pay. Like a rent deposit.
44:21 <CosmicRay> right
44:22 <Overfiend> CosmicRay: they sent us a bill
44:27 <CosmicRay> I don't know either really.
44:27 <Overfiend> showing a balance due
44:35 <CosmicRay> right.
44:36 <cdlu> want to call and ask?
44:39 <CosmicRay> I'd say pay it, and ask them.
44:40 <CosmicRay> sure
44:42 <Overfiend> that suggests to me that they didn't just chomp it out of the deposit.
44:46 <Hydroxide> ok. I'm sure we'll ring up more than $1240 of total charges in our time with them, so there's no reason not to pay it
44:56 <Overfiend> Agreed.  I've got the paper statement so I'll pay it.
45:03 <cdlu> CR, fyi I run out of time in 15 minutes.
45:04 <CosmicRay> Overfiend: right.  I suspect it's a deposit that we'd get back when we terminate our relationship with them.
45:05 <bdale> cdlu: that's not what a retainer is
45:11 <Hydroxide> so yeah, pay it and ask them. I'll also try to look for the letter of engagement, since it probably specifies
45:16 <Hydroxide> bdale: do enlighten us
45:28 <CosmicRay> Overfiend: I think it's more a CYA thing for them, so if we fail to pay some bills, they limit their losses.
45:39 <CosmicRay> but again, I'm just guessing.
45:40 <bdale> a retainer is a fee that you pay for the priveledge of having them represent you or do work for you, it is independent of billings for specific work done
46:06 <cdlu> right, like a lawyer being retained means you pay him to kick around. Makes sense.
46:25 <Overfiend> well...for a lawyer, the retainer establishes an attorney-client relationship, at least
46:40 <bdale> cdlu: if you pay a lawyer a retainer, then you get to say that lawyer is representing you.  if the lawyer does any work for you, he bills you for that directly.
46:41 <Overfiend> which means privilege attaches to your discussions as opposed to him chatting with you over hot dogs
46:46 <Hydroxide> well, I'll still check to see what was specifically said in the letter of engagement, but I see no reason not to pay it
46:51 <cdlu> bdale, like is happening here.
46:54 <Overfiend> I don't either.
47:08 <cdlu> I'd rather pay $1240 now then a fine later...
47:15 <cdlu> than
47:16 <Overfiend> I just didn't know bookkeepers got to enjoy the same racket^W^Wprivilege.
47:24 <Overfiend> we already paid them the $1k
47:28 <cdlu> OF, thinking of a change in job? :)
47:50 <Overfiend> cdlu: as a bookkeeper?  Hell no.  I wouldn't want to see the anti-resume unclean would post for me :)
48:35 <cdlu> heh
48:40 <cdlu> CosmicRay, anything further?
48:46 <CosmicRay> not from me
48:57 <Overfiend>     October 2005
48:57 <Overfiend> Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
48:57 <Overfiend>                    1
48:57 <Overfiend>  2  3  4  5  6  7  8
48:57 <Overfiend>  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
48:58 <CosmicRay> next meeting date?
48:59 <Overfiend> 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
49:02 <Overfiend> 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
49:02 <cdlu> October 18th
49:04 <Overfiend> 30 31
49:15 <CosmicRay> that is of course only 2 weeks away.
49:21 <bdale> 18th works for me
49:22 <CosmicRay> incidentally I won't be able to make it the 18th
49:36 <Overfiend> daylight saving/British Summer Time/whatever might transition in this interim
49:39 <CosmicRay> so you get to enjoy mako's leadership of that meeting ;-)
50:00 <CosmicRay> shall we proceed with the 18th then?
50:03 <mako> it will be sponsors week in the lab but i will make it
50:10 <Overfiend> sounds ok to me
50:15 <CosmicRay> ok.
50:17 <mako> i may have to disappear into a library somewhere :)
50:18 <CosmicRay> [closing] We are adjourned until October 18 at 19:00 UTC.
50:21 <CosmicRay> *GAVEL*