File contents

--- Log opened Wed Apr 16 00:00:13 2008
00:18 -!- Joy [~joy@joy.dtho.CARNet.hr] has quit [Quit: sleep]
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06:17 -!- _rene_ is "Rene Engelhard" on #spi #debian-kernel #debian-release #debian-devel #debianppc #debian-java #debian-oo
06:41 -!- luk is "Luk Claes" on #debian-bugs #dalug-farm #britney2 #devscripts #debian-arm
06:41 -!- luk [~luk@luk.netrep.oftc.net] has joined #spi
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10:16 -!- Solver_ is "Robert Brockway" on #spi #humbug
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17:28 -!- azeem_ is "Michael Banck" on #debian-soc #debian-dpl-debate #debian-dpkg #debian-women #debian-devel #debian-release #spi #debian-devel-fr #debian-glibc #debian-ops #debian-talk #debian-tech #debian
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18:41 -!- Solver [~robert@CPE00a0c96b79ba-CM001cea35fd4e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #spi
18:41 -!- Solver is "Robert Brockway" on #spi #humbug
18:41 < slef> hi Solver - what was with the No Route to Host?
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18:49 -!- Solver is "Robert Brockway" on #spi #humbug
18:54 -!- linuxpoet [~jd@or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #spi
18:54 -!- linuxpoet is "Joshua D. Drake" on #spi
19:30 -!- Sledge [steve@lump.einval.com] has joined #spi
19:30 -!- Sledge is "Steve McIntyre" on #spi #debian-release #debian-lists #debian-uk #debian-tech #debian-cd @#debian-soc #debconf-team
19:31  * Sledge waves
19:33 -!- azeem_ is now known as azeem
19:44 -!- Noodles [~noodles@the.earth.li] has joined #spi
19:44 -!- Noodles is "Jonathan McDowell" on #spi #debian-uk #alug #expats
19:45 < Noodles> I cleverly just joined #spit. My fingers trying to tell me something?
19:45 < Sledge> :-)
19:49 < Hydroxide> hi all
19:50 < sam> 'evening
19:53 < marga> Before the meeting starts, schultmc: I haven't received the electronic version of the commitment, were you able to do it?
19:54 < schultmc> marga: not yet - I'll get it to you this evening - sorry for the delay
19:55 < marga> schultmc: ok.
19:55 < zobel> evening
19:55 -!- BrucePerens [~val@dsl081-245-138.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #spi
19:55 -!- BrucePerens is "Valerie Gilbert-Perens" on #spi
19:56 -!- ore [~romain@home.orebokech.com] has joined #spi
19:56 -!- ore is "Romain Francoise" on #spi #debian-devel-fr #debian-women #debian-devel
19:57  * Hydroxide is slightly unsettled by how few board members have commented here in recent minutes
19:58  * cdlu shrugs unworriedly
19:58 < Hydroxide> hi there
19:58 < Hydroxide> :)
19:58 < linuxpoet> ?
19:58 < Hydroxide> linuxpoet: was just wondering about quorum issues, that's all
19:58 < Hydroxide> hi there
19:58 < Hydroxide> well, quorum and presiding-officer issues
19:59 < linuxpoet> are there presiding officer issues?
19:59  * bdale hopes not
19:59 < Hydroxide> hi there :)
19:59 < Hydroxide> you all are very surreptitious
19:59 < zobel> "Items up for discussion: New Debian Project Leade" <-- is there anything to discuss on it? :)
19:59 < BrucePerens> Off with his head :-)
19:59 < schultmc> not discuss, just mention for those not following the election
19:59 < zobel> Sledge is, what do we need to discuss about the vote? :)
19:59 < Sledge> pfft
19:59 < linuxpoet> so someone else jumped out a window after trying to lead Debian?
20:00 < cdlu> here!
20:00 < bdale> *GAVEL*
20:00 < bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of directors meeting, which is now called to order.
20:00 < bdale> Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found on the web at: http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/2008/2008-04-16.html
20:00 < bdale> [item 2, Roll Call]
20:00 < bdale> Board members, please state your name for the record.  As we have nine board members, quorum for today's meeting is six.
20:00 < bdale> Guests (including board advisors), please /msg your names to Maulkin if you wish your attendance to be recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
20:00 < bdale> Neil, any regrets?
20:00 < schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
20:00 < Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
20:00 < linuxpoet> Joshua Drake
20:00 < bdale> Hrm.  Neil himself was a tentative regret...
20:00 < schultmc> bdale: just Neil :)
20:00 < zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
20:00 < bdale> Bdale Garbee
20:00 < cdlu> David Graham 
20:00 < bdale> ok, I'm logging the channel as usual, but is anyone specifically prepared to cover for Neil?
20:00 < BrucePerens> Maulkin not here yet.
20:01 < Sledge> Maulkin's out canvassing for local council elections in Cambridge
20:01 < bdale> I believe we have quorum
20:01 < Hydroxide> hopefully Maulkin will still check his screen session and record names of guests from /msg
20:01 < Sledge> yeah, he said he would
20:01 < Hydroxide> ok
20:01 < bdale> who else is missing?
20:01 < zobel> bdale: Ganneff?
20:01 < schultmc> luk, Ganneff...
20:02 < Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
20:02 < bdale> luk_: ??
20:02 < luk_> Luk Claes
20:02 < cdlu> bdale, we're quorate anyway
20:02 < bdale> bingo, thanks all
20:02 < bdale> [item 3, President's Report]
20:02 < bdale> I note in passing that the OSI has seated a new board, including former DPL and SPI advisor Martin Michlmayr.
20:02 < bdale> Nothing else to report.
20:03 < cdlu> cool
20:03 < bdale> [item 4, Treasurer's Report]
20:03 < bdale> Michael?
20:03 < schultmc> I'm still working with Josh Berkus to get all the data necessary for a proper treasurer's report
20:03  * schultmc created a draft report that doesn't yet include the recent credit card donations but it's more than we've had previously
20:04 < Hydroxide> schultmc: I see the draft report in the agenda. what time period does it cover?
20:04 < schultmc> the draft report is linked from the agenda
20:04 < Hydroxide> schultmc: the expenses seem rather large for one month
20:04 < bdale> schultmc: hrm.  our ability to deliver an annual report is blocked waiting for a report we can include.  What's the current prognosis?
20:04 < schultmc> Hydroxide: from the start of the data entry system until this morning
20:04 < Hydroxide> schultmc: aah.
20:04 < Hydroxide> schultmc: do you know what that time frame is?
20:05 < schultmc> bdale: it's also stalled on the credit card data entry - I'll get that taken care of ASAP
20:05 < schultmc> Hydroxide: I entered 2000-01-01 through 2008-04-16 but we didn't start using this system until 2006 iirc
20:05 < Hydroxide> schultmc: hrm. very confusing since we have definitely had treasurer's reports subsequent to 2000-01-01 (I know both branden and I did a bunch)
20:05 < bdale> schultmc: not to be pushy, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how much progress is being made.  This is important stuff, yet seems to be dragging out.  Is there anything I or others on the board can do to help?
20:07 < schultmc> bdale: not at this time - Josh has been handling the credit card data entry himself in the past and his travel schedule makes him too busy to handle that - I'm taking that over and will have us caught up ASAP (1-2 weeks max I estimate)
20:07 < bdale> schultmc: ok.  do you believe we'll be able to have a report before the next board meeting?
20:07 < schultmc> other than the credit card donations, we're caught up as of the last bank visit
20:07 < schultmc> bdale: yes, definitely
20:08 -!- lucas [~lucas@xanadu.blop.info] has joined #spi
20:08 -!- lucas is "Lucas Nussbaum" on #spi #debian-devel-fr #debian-devel #debian-qa #debian-release #debian-mentors #debian-devel-changes #debian-newmaint #debian-ruby #aldil #debian-soc
20:08 < bdale> schultmc: ok, that's good news.  let's stay in sync in the meantime, the sooner I can get something to use to trigger emitting an annual report the happier I'll be!
20:08 < bdale> anything else?
20:08 < schultmc> not from me
20:08 < bdale> k
20:08 < bdale> [item 5, Secretary's report]
20:08 < bdale> has Neil arrived?
20:08 < cdlu> I don't expect Neil to arrive
20:08 < bdale> doesn't look like it
20:08 < bdale> anyone have a report from him?
20:08 < cdlu> election night for him
20:08 < bdale> ah, ok
20:09 < Hydroxide> schultmc: one more question for you ... any status update on the form 1023 request?
20:09 < Hydroxide> (and the corresponding approval letter request)
20:09 < schultmc> Hydroxide: the request has been submitted to the IRS and they've cashed the check (fee for form request) so it's in their queue
20:10 < bdale> ok, great, let's move on
20:10 < Hydroxide> schultmc: ok, thanks.
20:10 < bdale> with no Neil, I assume we don't have minutes?
20:10 < bdale> to approve, I mean
20:10 < schultmc> none linked from the agenda
20:10 < bdale> right
20:10 < bdale> ok, let's keep moving
20:10 < Hydroxide> bdale: his announcement email said there were zero to approva
20:10 < Hydroxide> heh, interesting typo there
20:11 < bdale> Hydroxide: thanks, I guess I missed that detail
20:11 < bdale> [item 7, Items up for discussion]
20:11 < bdale> [item 7.1, Debian logo license ]
20:11 < bdale> What's up here?
20:11 < Hydroxide> as far as I know, nothing to discuss this meeting. I don't know why this was left on the agenda from last meeting.
20:11  * schultmc thought we voted on that last month
20:11 < bdale> me too
20:11 < Hydroxide> also, Neil's mail mentioned one motion to approve, but neither that nor the agenda links to a motion.
20:11 < bdale> I'm willing to believe there might have been some followup, but seems just as likely it's an over-zealous cut n paste?
20:12 < linuxpoet> I am thinking cut n paste fury
20:12 < bdale> ok
20:12 < Hydroxide> probably
20:12 < bdale> [item 7.2, New Debian Project Leader ]
20:12 < bdale> The Debian project has elected Steve McIntyre as their new DPL.  It has been our tradition to treat the sitting DPL as an SPI board advisor.
20:12 < bdale> I believe Steve is on channel, Sam may be too?  Do we need to take any explicit action?
20:12  * Sledge will slap him when he turns up later
20:12 < cdlu> bdale, it's not tradition, it's legislated
20:12  * bdale is ok with that
20:12 < sam> note that I'm still the sitting DPL for almost 5 hours :)
20:12 < Sledge> :-)
20:12 < Hydroxide> although, we usually vote on new advisors, right?
20:12 < bdale> ergo my question
20:12 < Ganneff> dont think we need to do stuff - the membership is for leader@d.o (including the mail lists) :)
20:13 < cdlu> hydroxide, member project leaders are always advisors
20:13 < Hydroxide> cdlu: with no vote? gotcha.
20:13 < cdlu> adding sam is fine with me
20:13 < cdlu> (back in)
20:13 < cdlu> if that's what we want
20:13 < bdale> what does sam want?  ;-)
20:13 < sam> I'd be happy to
20:14 < bdale> I'm happy to have sam's opinions on things, but I'm ambivalent about whether we need to annoint him as an advisor in order to listen to him.
20:14 < cdlu> Steve could always appoint Sam as Debian's advisor in his place
20:14 < bdale> what privs does that status convey?  access to the -board list?
20:14 < cdlu> basically
20:15 < sam> oh, it's not that I lack communication channels to contact any SPI members anyway
20:15 < Sledge> sam and I can work this out later, I'm sure, if there's anything needed from/for Debian
20:15 < Ganneff> umm. if we go and appoint every ex-dpl as an advisor we end up with lotsa people on the list soon
20:15 < bdale> right
20:16 < bdale> ok
20:16 < bdale> let's not take any explicit action today, then
20:16 < cdlu> bdale, http://www.spi-inc.org/corporate/resolutions/2004-08-10-iwj-dbg.3
20:16 < sam> like Ganneff says. I don't think I need anything special
20:16 < cdlu> for reference.
20:16 < bdale> advisorship will move from sam to Sledge, we can entertain a motion to add sam later if anyone feels the need.  ok?
20:16 < cdlu> works for me
20:16 < bdale> Do any board members have other items for discussion they would like to address briefly?
20:17 < Hydroxide> does anyone know if we've taken care of whatever one motion neil referred to in his announcement email?
20:17  * bdale assumes that was related to the mistaken logo item
20:17 < bdale> or perhaps the DPL change
20:17 < Hydroxide> ah.
20:17 < bdale> unclear
20:17  * Hydroxide has nothing else to discuss now
20:18 < bdale> hopefully we'll be a bit more organized again by next month
20:18 < Hydroxide> yep.
20:18 < bdale> [item 8, Next board meeting]
20:18 < bdale> I believe our default would be Wednesday 21st May, 2008 - 19:00 UTC?  Works for me.  Any strong objections?
20:18 < luk_> only minor :-)
20:18 < cdlu> that timeslot works for me.
20:19 < luk_> so no need to change it
20:19  * bdale counts to 10
20:19 < bdale> Ok, thank you to everyone present for participating today.
20:19 < bdale> *GAVEL*
20:19 < cdlu> thanks bdale
20:19 -!- BrucePerens [~val@dsl081-245-138.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:19 < luk_> thanks bdale
20:19 < zobel> Notification mails from the secretary arrive quite close to the actual meeting. we should do something about that.
20:19 < cdlu> *** Signoff, #spi: BrucePerens (Quit: Leaving)
20:19 < bdale> yes, I think it was an oversight this month
20:19 < cdlu> election must be coming :)
20:20 < bdale> cdlu: he failed to be elected to the OSI board
20:20 < cdlu> zobel, I should note that the meetings are always scheduled at the previous meetings, and so they should take place whether or not the secretary sends a followup
20:20 < cdlu> bdale, ya
20:20 < Sledge> Maulkin should know if he's been elected in 15 days or so, then things should calm down a little
20:20 < cdlu> I gathered from your announcement about tbm :)
20:20 < Hydroxide> Sledge: if he's not elected, you mean :)
20:20 < slef> bdale: and the last two months?
20:21 < bdale> cdlu: they elected two new members, I thought tbm was worthy of mention because of his prior affiliation here
20:21 < Sledge> Hydroxide: :-)
20:21 < cdlu> ya, I agree that he is
20:21 < slef> Sledge: which way does his ward swing, do you know?
20:21 < bdale> slef: I'm not happy with the trend line
20:21 < bdale> what's he running for?
20:21 < zobel> cdlu: ack, 
20:22 < slef> bdale: we're moving from zero-day to zero-hour, you mean?
20:22 < cdlu> lib-dems 
20:22 < slef> bdale: city council I think
20:22  * slef checks
20:22 < Sledge> slef: he's in a marginal at the moment
20:22 < cdlu> bdale, http://www.cambridge.gov.uk/ccm/content/reception-and-office-services/elections/nominated-candidates-2008.en;jsessionid=494CDA984968005E6287014DC26D6753
20:22 < slef> http://blog.halon.org.uk/geek/offline-references.html
20:23 < bdale> slef: I'm more worried about having the agenda established in timely fashion so that controversial items can get discussion prior to meeting time than I am about the logistics of meeting announcements, but in both cases we're not performing as well now as we were, say, 6 months ago
20:23 < slef> "I'm running for local government as the Liberal Democrat candidate for King's Hedges City Councillor in Cambridge."
20:23  * cdlu plans to run for city council here in 2010
20:23 < cdlu> SPI is a strange breeding ground apparently :)
20:24 < slef> I'm going to send apologies to my first council meeting as councillor, which is ironic :)
20:24 < Hydroxide> slef: did you get elected to something?
20:24 < slef> Hydroxide: yeah, only the village council.
20:25 < Hydroxide> slef: congrats!
20:25 < cdlu> slef, oh cool, congratulations. :)
20:25 < Sledge> slef: congratulations too :-)
20:25 < slef> Hydroxide: outside of debian-related things, I do sometimes get elected... I'm also a director of the regional cooperative federation.
20:25  * cdlu doesn't get elected much but does work hard at getting other people elected :)
20:27 < slef> thanks all, by the way
20:27 < slef> cdlu: I
20:27  * linuxpoet can't run for city council
20:27 < slef> cdlu: I've done that in the past, for two different parties ;-)
20:27 < linuxpoet> I have a tendency to not live in city limits
20:27 < Hydroxide> slef: right, I know you're very involved in coop stuff from reading your blog on planet debian. I quite respect that. I was more congratulating you on holding an elected government office, even if it's an extremely local one
20:27 < cdlu> slef, which two?
20:27 < bdale> linuxpoet: ditto.  would have to be board of county commissioners, which is a big deal around here at least.
20:28  * cdlu doubts it was lib-dems and tories :)
20:28 < slef> cdlu: LD and Green
20:28 < cdlu> ah, cool
20:28 < linuxpoet> bdale: yeah I could do the commissioner thing
20:28 < linuxpoet> but I am a little busy
20:28 < Hydroxide> well, my most local government position would be New York City Council
20:29 < bdale> linuxpoet: right, my impression is that our county has enough stuff going on that doing the kind of quality job I'd feel compelled to do would take far more time than I'm willing to commit right now
20:29 < Hydroxide> and that's nontrivial :)
20:29 < Hydroxide> both in terms of getting elected and in staying on
20:29 < cdlu> slef, my crowning achievement to date was the utter and total destruction of a pro-proportional representation campaign in a referendum here last fall, on a budget approximately 1/10th of 1% the other side's.
20:29 < Hydroxide> err, in terms of doing the job, I mean
20:29 < linuxpoet> I am currently busy allowing the Elephant to kill the Dolphin. I want to focus on that
20:30  * bdale gets called away... later, all!
20:30 < Hydroxide> bye bdale
20:30 < slef> Hydroxide: yeah, cities are a bigger challenge
20:30 < Sledge> ttfn folks
20:30 -!- Sledge [steve@lump.einval.com] has left #spi []
20:31 < Hydroxide> slef: especially the US's biggest city and one of the world's major cities
20:31 < slef> Hydroxide: I think our village budget is comparable to some nearby towns, which is an accident of geography: the village doubles in size with tourists in the summer.
20:31 < cdlu> in big cities you're fighting for a full time job as a representative, not just meetings that take little more time than SPI board meetings
20:31 < Hydroxide> cdlu: yep
20:31 < cdlu> in this town it's a part time job 
20:32 < Hydroxide> cdlu: not sure if it's full-time in the sense of year-round, but definitely full-time when in session
20:32  * cdlu hopes it's a full time job by the time he runs for it
20:32 < linuxpoet> cdlu: do you really want the paycut?
20:32 < Hydroxide> although, I think even NY state legislators are allowed to hold another job
20:32 < cdlu> linuxpoet, what makes you think I make much?
20:32 < cdlu> :)
20:32 < Hydroxide> not sure
20:32  * cdlu hates money and loves policy
20:32 < linuxpoet> it doesn't take much to make more than a city council person
20:32 < slef> linuxpoet: depends on the city?
20:33 < cdlu> linuxpoet, well, if I became a full time city councillor it'd be a pay increase for me. 
20:33 < cdlu> but that doesn't affect my judgement of the job. I want it to effect change.
20:33 < linuxpoet> slef: oh certainly but even larger cities such as PDX don't make *a lot*
20:33 < Hydroxide> linuxpoet: in NYC, a city council member receives $112,500 in base, with various opportunities for additional compensation
20:33 < linuxpoet> O.k. but in NYC... that isn't that much
20:34 < linuxpoet> In Portland, that is quite a bit
20:34 < schultmc> city-county councillors in Indianapolis make about $13k
20:34 < cdlu> in NYC you can't live on that :)
20:34 < Hydroxide> linuxpoet: yes it is quite a bunch, even here
20:34 < cdlu> here you can live on half that quite comfortably
20:34 < linuxpoet> I couldn't live on half that, but I have 3 kids
20:34 < linuxpoet> with no kids I could easily live on half of that
20:34  * cdlu has no kids
20:34 < Hydroxide> cdlu: knowing from firsthand experience, it's still a lot even in NYC
20:34 < cdlu> my wife is a grad student at the university who makes nearly as much as I do from scholarships and grants :)
20:34 < Hydroxide> don't assume that everyone here is a wall street investment banker :)
20:35 < slef> Bristol City Council's leader gets £42,500
20:35 < Hydroxide> there are lots of middle and lower class people in NYC too
20:36 < slef> local councillors' pay here went up by 20 to 51 per cent this month
20:36 < cdlu> slef, cool, now you can buy *two* coffees. :)
20:37 < slef> sorry, I mean the next level up
20:37 < slef> village councillors get naught AFAIK
20:37  * linuxpoet can't buy coffee for 51 cents a cup
20:37 < cdlu> you should make it yourself, it's cheap. :)
20:38 < slef> well, coffee and biscuits at meetings
20:38 < cdlu> slef, hehe
20:38 < linuxpoet> :P
20:38 < cdlu> councillors here make about $25K a year (CAD) working part time
20:38 < cdlu> not sure what it would be if they went full time
20:39 < cdlu> but probably not as much as senior city staff
20:39 < cdlu> city clerk here makes $132K
20:39 < slef> Just in case anyone didn't see it: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/writing/reflections/Better_Free_Software_Organisations_.html
20:39  * Hydroxide heads away - bye for now
20:40 < linuxpoet> slef: You want my honest opinion :P
20:40  * slef checks /whois
20:41 < slef> linuxpoet: yeah
20:41 < linuxpoet> I think most FOSS developers are more interested in the "idea" of being associated with a NPO than actually doing the work required to make it successful
20:41 < slef> participation without responsibility, you mean?
20:42 < linuxpoet> yeah
20:42 < linuxpoet> We have lots of people who are willing to rant off on a mailing list
20:42 < linuxpoet> few that are willing to take the actual time and energy required to get other important (and frankly boring) things done
20:44 < slef> Ah, but there are also some who will challenge ranters by asking if they're willing to put the work in, then back down if the ranter says yes...
20:44 < slef> excuse me, just off to stick my head in the floor, back in 2
20:48 < slef> back
20:51 < slef> linuxpoet: any ideas how to make it work / make things better?
20:51 < linuxpoet> heh
20:52 < linuxpoet> I believe in having people do what they are good at
20:52 < linuxpoet> or what they are paricularly qualified for
20:52 < linuxpoet> The reason I pushed so hard for the financial provider review and subsequent approval of paysimple is it is a particular task that I know quite a bit about and that SPI needed
20:52 < linuxpoet> but notice I have not offered and actually explicitly stated I would not be treasurer
20:53 < linuxpoet> The task involved some stuff I would rather not have done but I accepted that was part of the task
20:54 < linuxpoet> and did it anyway
20:57 < linuxpoet> and then just to keep a glass half full mentality, I think a lot of people think that this whole NPO thing won't take up much time 
20:57 < linuxpoet> when in fact it does... a lot, if you want to do it right
20:57 < slef> yeah, I just replied rudely to the gobolinux developers going "hey, let's create an NPO and assign our copyrights to it"
20:57 < slef> :)
20:58 < slef> unexpected dinner here... thanks for your input... maybe catch you some other time... final point: someone has suggested reposting the article to the front of advogato.  Good/bad/ugly?
21:00 < linuxpoet> I think it is a good article
21:00 < linuxpoet> So go for it
21:05 -!- linuxpoet [~jd@or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #spi []
21:12 < Maulkin> Damn people keeping me busy complaining on doorsteps. I mean, erm, wonderful electorate who provide an essential part in communicating local problems throughout the government and are an essential part of the democratic process.
21:35 < bdale> complaining, or campaigning?
21:35 < cdlu> hehe
21:35 < bdale> oh, perhaps complaining *to* you?
21:35  * bdale didn't read that well the first time
23:09 < Maulkin> bdale: yes :P
--- Log closed Thu Apr 17 00:00:53 2008