21:00 *GAVEL* 21:00 [item 1, opening] This meeting of the Board of Software in the Public Interest, Inc., is called to order. 21:00 PLEASE NOTE: Our agenda for today, AND all the resolutions and minutes we will be voting on, are online at: 21:00 http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/ 21:00 [item 2, roll call] Board members, please state your name for the record. Others present may /msg cdlu with your full name if you wish to be listed in the records. 21:00 (While we wait: Open Source voting software may be better but _projects_ for Open Source voting software are (a) a dangerous distraction and (b) muddy the message that we should have processes that don't depend on the computers' integrity in which case the Open Sourceness of any software is much less relevant.) 21:00 * cdlu ribs CosmicRay 21:00 We have 9 board members, so quorum for today is 6. 21:00 We have regrets from Branden. 21:00 * Hydroxide notes BrucePerens's ident information and ircname 21:00 David Graham 21:00 John Goerzen 21:00 Bdale Garbee 21:00 Jimmy Kaplowitz 21:00 Ian Jackson 21:00 that's 5.... 21:00 BrucePerens: ping? 21:00 Bruce Perens 21:00 quorum 21:01 [item 3, president's update] 21:01 Please see the call for contributions for the annual report that was 21:01 sent to spi-general. 21:01 [item 4, treasurer's report] Jimmy/Branden, you have the floor. 21:01 ahem. 21:01 Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to prepare the treasurer's reports. (Hence me stepping down in July.) I will, however, get John the info he needs for the annual reports by his deadline of the 26th, and get caught up on Treasurer's reports before the new officers take office on July 29. 21:02 * cdlu pings joey and mako 21:02 any discussion? 21:02 Hydroxide: do we need to discuss the registration? 21:02 CosmicRay, I expect to give you something about/from OFTC, but it won't be much. Wrt president's report. 21:02 cdlu: excellent, thanks. 21:02 jberkus: there's an item for that later 21:03 * Hydroxide moves to proceed 21:03 (to the minutes) 21:03 any other discussion on financial issues? 21:03 * bdale registers his disappointement at the lack of a report 21:03 * CosmicRay seconds that 21:03 bdale: Understood. 21:03 ok, let's move on. 21:03 [item 5, outstanding minutes] 12 minutes to review. cdlu, you have 21:03 the floor. 21:04 umm, ok. I'll take it 21:04 oh, slef wanted to say something? 21:04 there are six minutes completed and posted. 21:04 ? 21:04 I guess not 21:04 has the board noticed the SPI partners / debian donations discussion on debian-project/debian-vote? 21:04 sorry, eating 21:04 * cdlu has not 21:04 I haven't been reading -project or -vote 21:05 hopefully when Debian wants to talk to the board, someone will email board@ 21:05 slef: I'm aware of that but I'll summarise for the minutes. Give me a mo. 21:05 ok that's all from me 21:05 Re minutes: 6 done ? 21:05 IanJackson: yes. the ones that don't say (log only) 21:05 * Hydroxide reviewed them before the meeting and is ready to approve them 21:05 Hydroxide. Oh, right. 21:05 (!) Joey [joey@luonnotar.infodrom.org] has joined #spi 21:05 (!) Joey is Joey Schulze on #spi #debian-devel #debian.de at server neutron.oftc.net 21:06 Minutes for July 1st and 26th, 2005, January 17th, February 21st, April 18th, and May 16th, 2006 are all available for voting. We can vote on them individually 21:06 or as a group. 21:06 is there a motion to approve these minutes? 21:06 I think these things should be sent out by email if they're ready before the meeting so that we can review them. 21:06 I posted a couple of reminders to the lists so I expect everyone has read them. They've been up for over a week. 21:06 I don't want to approve them before reading them. 21:06 I wasn't present for all the meetings, so will abstain if they're voted as a group 21:06 Ian, if you don't read the messages to the list, that's your problem. 21:06 cdlu: Just a mo, looking for it. 21:07 I sent one on the thirteenth, and one earlier today. 21:07 IanJackson: out of curiosity, did you receive my reply to your proposal this morning? 21:07 CosmicRay, I propose that we do an abbreviated, but separate vote. If you'll oblige. 21:07 cdlu: To where ? board@ ? What was the subject line ? 21:07 jberkus: Yes, but I haven't had time to read it properly, or to reply. 21:08 1: y/n/a, 2: y/n/a, 3: y/n/a, 4: y/n/a, 5: y/n/a, 6: y/n/a. for them in chronological order. 21:08 ok, just checking, because it seems that you didn't get an earlier e-mail I sent to board@ 21:08 Point of order! 21:08 6387 Jun 13 To: board@spi-inc.org (2696) Meeting reminder - june 20th - and agenda 21:08 maybe I'm a victim of your sauce. 21:08 cdlu: I got that mail. It doesn't say anything about minutes to be approved. 21:08 ok, I believe we should either have a motion to vote or to proceed. 21:08 It just contains a URL of a web page. 21:09 Ian, the agenda, oddly enough. 21:09 do you ever read the agenda? 21:09 the agenda is too full to dither about what was in email. 21:09 * Hydroxide suggests that the disagreement happen outside the meeting 21:09 Well, I'm not ready to vote on these minutes. 21:09 I don't post URLs to the list to hear the sound of my own voice, really. :) 21:09 outside the meeting> fine by me. 21:09 So abstain. 21:09 * Hydroxide moves to vote since I think most of us are ready to vote 21:09 * cdlu seconds 21:09 Hydroxide: to vote on them all as a group? 21:09 yes 21:10 in the interest of time 21:10 CosmicRay, would you accept voting on them individually, as a group, as I suggested above? 21:10 cdlu: I'd accept that 21:10 there is noone here who was at all 6. 21:10 cdlu: I didn't parse that sentence 21:10 Tue Jun 20 15:07:49 2006 | CosmicRay, I propose that we do an abbreviated, but separate vote. If you'll oblige. 21:10 Tue Jun 20 15:08:08 2006 | 1: y/n/a, 2: y/n/a, 3: y/n/a, 4: y/n/a, 5: y/n/a, 6: y/n/a. for them in chronological order. 21:11 cdlu: if you think you can count it, sure. 21:11 is there any further discussion before we vote? 21:11 I can count it as long as everyone does it :) 21:11 seeing none, let's vote 21:11 !vote start 21:11 1: a, 2: a, 3: a, 4:a, 5: a, 6: a 21:11 !vote 1: y, 2: y, 3: y, 4, y: 5, y, 6: y. 21:11 1: y, 2: y, 3: a, 4: y, 5: a, 6: y 21:11 I would like the minutes to note that I don't consider David Graham's message with the agenda URL adequate notice. 21:11 I vote no in each case. 21:11 sorry but I haven't had time to read them yet 21:11 !vote 1: y 2: y 3: y 4: y 5: y 6: y 21:11 CR: So vote no. 21:11 !vote 1: a, 2: a, 3: a, 4: y, 5: y, 6: y 21:12 Ian, it'll be noted in the log. 21:12 cdlu: I want it noted in the minutes too. 21:12 IanJackson: it is not cdlu's fault that I haven't had time to read them. 21:12 I don't care 21:12 nor the fault of the minutes. 21:12 CR: We don't know whether the minutes are faulty. 21:12 Ian, so read them when I post them a week ahead of the meeting. 21:12 There is nothing wrong with abstaining if you don't feel it's OK to say Yes. 21:12 IanJackson: which is why I'm not expressing an opinion either way. 21:12 cdlu: You did not post the minutes. You posted an agenda URL. 21:12 * Hydroxide thinks its well established that minutes are posted as part of the agenda 21:13 1/a, 2y, 3a, 4a, 5a, 6a, 7a, 8a, 9a, 10a, 11y, 12a 21:13 I read them all. I think the ones for the meetings I attended were ok. I'm abstaining for the ones I was not present for. 21:13 IanJackson: which linked to the minutes.... 21:13 then there's joey... 21:13 Why wasn' 21:13 cdlu: has everyone voted? 21:13 It is well established that the agenda URL points to a page which contains no useful information and certainly no written-up minutes ! 21:13 t I informed of all those extra meetings, Joey? :-) 21:13 cosmicray, cdlu, hydroxide, bdale, bruceperens, joey have voted. that's everyone. 21:13 BrucePerens: he was including the (log only) ones 21:13 cdlu: and Ian, of course 21:13 The agenda page contents has been constantly edited right up to and during the meeting. 21:14 IanJackson: stop it. the agenda URL sometimes has been useful, and this time was particularly so. you should have read your email and looked, showing up for the meeting with no advance prep is bad form 21:14 no, ian hasn't voted has he? 21:14 cdlu: do you have any vote totals? 21:14 cdlu: I have voted no in all cases. 21:14 cdlu: He said he votes no in each case 21:14 he didn't do your vote format 21:14 Yawn. 21:14 oh that'll be fun. 5 people voted right. can I only count them? 21:14 I'm not going to reorder or renumber an arbitrary number of 11 meetings, sorry. 21:15 cdlu: can we proceed now and you can announce the result later? 21:15 (that's too error-prone) 21:15 here's joey's vote correctly: 1:a 2:y 3:a 4:a 5:y 6:a 21:15 cdlu has the log, fortunately. 21:15 that's what Joey voted 21:15 CR, that's fine with me. 21:15 ok. moving on. 21:15 [item 6, election voting software] is there discussion on this? 21:15 yes. I have found the old voting software on chic 21:16 but have neither the permissions nor a clue how to use it. 21:16 have you contacted wiggy? 21:16 cdlu: weasel should know it, iirc. 21:16 (or maybe I'm mixing up things) 21:16 Joey, weasel has disavowed any connection to it, even though he wrote it 21:16 cosmicray, not yet. 21:16 are we stuck not using Manoj's code because of the difference in SPI vs Debian vote counting rules? 21:16 cdlu: Err... 21:17 bdale: and because we use web-based voting and not email+gpg 21:17 bdale: yes, I believe that is part of it. 21:17 hrm. I'd forgotten that. shame to not use something that exists and is well oiled within a member project. 21:17 bdale: (not all non-DD SPI members have GPG keys) 21:17 Hydroxide: that seems pretty lame, but I won't argue it 21:17 bdale: I think that when Manoj rewrites devotee as he is planning to do, it might be more suitable then 21:17 CosmicRay, so yes, there is discussion. :) 21:18 When's the vote? 21:18 * Maulkin could look / make it work again if wanted 21:18 Maulkin: I wanted to ask the same thing :-) 21:18 * luk could help 21:18 Maulkin, July 1st-29th 21:18 Jul 15 - Jul 28 21:18 cdlu: no, that's the whole election 21:18 the software has to be ready for the first so I can put the campaign stuff up 21:18 Enough time then. 21:18 * Maulkin + Luk can do it if wanted 21:18 though strictly speaking it needs to be usable by the 15th. 21:19 I can always post the campaign statements under secretary :) 21:19 I would offer to help with the software but I'll be a candidate AIUI. 21:19 cdlu: Campaign stuff seems to have come under secreatry before... 21:19 IanJackson: from what cdlu has said most recently, that's not true 21:19 Maulkin, it's possible. I'm not sure how it all works. 21:20 cdlu: Maulkin is right 21:20 cdlu: For the record can you tell us which board members are up for reelection ? 21:20 cdlu: Well, if we move to the new website... But that's later in the agenda 21:20 if it's all broken, I can probably get someone to do it from scratch 21:20 but no promises 21:20 Ian, Bruce, Mako, and Cosmicray's seats are up 21:20 s/Ian,// 21:20 yeah, not Ian 21:21 cdlu: OK then. In that case I volunteer to do the tallying etc. if no other better solution occurs before the task needs doing. 21:21 Ian, noted. 21:22 CosmicRay, I think we're done with this for now. 21:22 I don't promise to write any useable software but I will of course make what I do verifiable so people can spot any mistakes I make. 21:22 I can work with Maulkin, et al., outside of meeting. 21:22 excellent... let's move on to: 21:22 [item 6, call for nominations] 21:22 cdlu, I guess this is yours as well 21:22 ok 21:22 starting at 0000 on the 1st I will accept nominations 21:22 and post them 21:22 nominations are self-nominations. Just a position statement. 21:23 00:00 timezone? 21:23 cdlu: deadline is? 21:23 zulu 21:23 deadline is midnight the 13th 21:23 I highly recommend they're in before then 21:23 can I send you my nomination ahead of time to hold until the 1st? 21:23 23:59:59 the 13th 21:23 I'll be running a confernece July 1-13 21:23 jberkus, I'd rather not. I'm not prepared for them yet. 21:23 jberkus, understood. send it to me before the conference, I'll do what I can. 21:23 jberkus: cronjob :-) 21:24 CosmicRay: . 21:24 jberkus: or at even 21:24 00:00 timezone? 21:24 cdlu: can you post all this to -announce? 21:24 taking offline 21:24 slef: < cdlu> zulu 21:24 slef: AKA UTC 21:24 wtf is zulu? .za? 21:24 oic 21:24 UTC 21:25 heh 21:25 CosmicRay, I posted something to -annouce and -general a few days ago. I think the announce is held up in queue, I'll need to fix that. 21:25 ok. 21:25 are we ready to move on then? 21:25 yep. 21:25 * Hydroxide is 21:25 [item 6, 3 candidates this year] 21:25 I think we covered this already 21:25 Why can't we open nominations immediately ? 21:25 so now back one item to.... 21:25 [item 6, officer roles] 21:25 Ian, read the resolution. 21:25 CosmicRay, to be discussed following the election. 21:25 two item 6's? 21:26 schultmc: more than that ;-) 21:26 see the agenda 21:26 they're all

ok then. on to: 21:26 ah 21:26 [item 6, OVF membership] 21:26 the discussion we've all been waiting for. 21:26 * Hydroxide moves to vote given that there's been a lot of discussion on-list and then before the meeting 21:26 CosmicRay if there is no objection, I move we go straight to voting on Ian's amendment to the resolution. 21:26 (specifically, on Ian's amendment then the resolution) 21:26 * Hydroxide seconds 21:26 switching IDs in order to switch machines, sorry <-- Josh Berkus 21:26 cdlu: is that in the agenda? 21:26 CosmicRay, it is. 21:27 it's right below the resolution under the resolutions appendix 21:27 yes. 21:27 OK, we have a motion and a second to vote on Amendment 2006-06-20.iwj.1. 21:27 any discussion before we vote? 21:27 none here 21:27 hearing none, let's vote: 21:27 !vote start 21:27 !vote no 21:27 !vote no 21:27 !vote no 21:27 !vote no 21:28 !vote no 21:28 Ian, Joey? 21:28 * cdlu rolls eyes 21:28 There's so much blather that it's tempting to look at another window, and then you miss the vote. 21:28 !vote no 21:29 BrucePerens: ahh, the blue sky of death 21:29 IanJackson: time to vote for your amendment 21:29 CosmicRay, the result can obviously no longer be changed. shall we move on to the resolution? 21:29 cdlu: yes 21:29 !vote stop 21:29 Sorry, I've been absent for a bit. 21:29 My network died here briefly. 21:29 It didn't matter. 21:29 * IanJackson reads scrool. 21:29 IanJackson: can we presume you voted yes on your amendment? 21:29 Hy: Yes. 21:29 cdlu: note that in the vote totals then 21:29 and you wonder why it takes so long for me to do minutes. 21:29 IanJackson: all other directors present voted no 21:29 let the record show that 2006-06-20.iwj.1 did not pass. 21:30 is there a motion to vote on 2006-06-06.dbg.1? 21:30 so moved 21:30 * Hydroxide so moves 21:30 seconded 21:30 any discussion? 21:30 Yes, let's vote on it. 21:30 ok. 21:30 CosmicRay, tons, but it's already taken place. 21:30 !vote start 21:30 !vote no 21:30 !vote yes 21:30 !vote yes 21:30 !vote yes 21:30 For clarity for the record, please record my vote as yes on my amendment. 21:30 !vote no 21:31 !vote yes 21:31 !vote yes 21:31 Yes: 5, No: 2, Abstain: 0 21:31 Right. 21:31 !vote stop 21:32 2006-06-06.dbg.1 has passed. 21:32 shame! 21:32 I believe that fully resolves this item, correct? 21:32 slef: Not exactly helpful. 21:32 CosmicRay: I think so, yes. 21:32 ok. 21:32 Slef, you're not stuck with the machines from the bad guys. 21:32 * cdlu hands slef a piece of cardboard, a marker, and a stick 21:32 [item 6, Spain trademark] 21:32 who is working on this item? 21:33 IanJackson: I'm sympathetic with your points, but don't believe SPI should take a stand on that in preference to supporting OVF as a project that falls within our guidelines 21:33 BrucePerens: it _doesn't matter_ if the machines are from the bad guys if your election arrangements are at all competent. If your arrangements are _not_ competent then you're sunk even with Free software. As I pointed out. 21:33 * Hydroxide politely requests the OVF-related discussion to be delayed, now that the vote is over, until after the meeting 21:33 bdale: That's a reasonable position. 21:33 *rap rap* this election discussion is out of order. 21:33 Ian, I hear you. Cant 21:34 no 21:34 no 21:34 Is there any discussion on the spain trademark? 21:34 Oops. Sorry. 21:34 cdlu: do you know whose item this was? 21:34 * Hydroxide thinks someone should be dealing with the trademark issue 21:34 cdlu: it seems this has been on our agenda for a few months 21:34 it needs to get dealt with 21:34 and we haven't done anything about it 21:34 Hydroxide: agreed 21:34 but I don't know who is doing it 21:34 Regarding the spanish trademark issue, i think i can ask some friends of mine who work can prolly help out. the organization is hipatia and ourproject.org 21:34 Last month we asked a bunch of questions and we still don't seem to have the answers. 21:34 (!) wnoronha is now known as wnorrix 21:34 CosmicRay, it's something noone's exactly wanted to take ownership of, to be frank. 21:34 As I was saying before ircII did something strange, Ian, I hear you. Can't say I agree. Best to table the discussion, given the vote. 21:35 29:03 slef: i can get greg's advice 21:35 IanJackson: did someone actually send the questions to the appropriate party? 21:35 BrucePerens: Yes, we should agree to disagree. 21:35 CosmicRay: I don't know. 21:35 could we... er... continue with the trademark in Spain? 21:35 I think so. 21:35 we need someone to champion this issue. 21:35 as of last meeting we were still waiting for mako to hear back from greg. 21:35 (from last month, from the month before, currently scanning) 21:35 cdlu: sounds like mako needs to send a ping to greg. 21:35 wnoronha has offered assistance BTW 21:36 33:47 let's get Greg's advice and handle it via email resolution 21:36 In case it was missed 21:36 34:20 i left a message 21:36 cdlu: I'm not prepared to vote on this until we have an answer from Greg 21:36 There were big mail chains and I think Javier was CC'd on many of them. 21:36 end of log section 21:36 Maulkin: the main assistance we need right now is email advice from our lawyer. we already have a spanish lawyer willing to sue pro bono 21:36 Hydroxide: Ahh, ok :) 21:36 Maulkin: yes. I dont mind helping out. I know people there who will be glad to help out. 21:37 Hydroxide: would you be willing to ping mako and/or greg? 21:37 or wnorrix, you could too. 21:37 CosmicRay: sure. I'm actually in NYC and have greg's phone number 21:37 CosmicRay: so I'm probably the right one to ping him 21:37 Hydroxide, perfect 21:37 Hydroxide: super. 21:37 (more so than mako even, as of now) 21:37 Hydroxide: That'd be good. 21:37 We should shelve the issue then. 21:37 agreed. 21:38 let's move on then... 21:38 [item 6, VP responsibilities] 21:38 However, we should be prepared to mail-vote on this issue, since not too much time should pass without any reaction on our end if we should want to sue that guy. 21:38 * cdlu notes the discussion -board about his agenda posting practices and is thankful he won't be secretary after next meeting. 21:38 Joey: I thought we all agreed to do that last time and are just hung waiting for a reply from Greg 21:39 cdlu: are we doing the VP responsibilities thing today? 21:39 bdale: if we all agreed on it, then there's no need to vote but only to make it happen. 21:39 CosmicRay, I'd like to. Is this other discussion again deferred? 21:39 Joey: months are drifting by already. 21:39 Joey: s/agreed to do that/agreed to vote by email/ 21:39 slef: that's what I meant. 21:39 cdlu: it sounds like it. 21:39 bdale: Oh, that... :) 21:40 CosmicRay, yeah.. 21:40 unless someone has a motion to make? 21:40 Has everyone had a chance to read my resolution on Vice President responsibilities? 21:40 cdlu: when you say 'admin' you mean computer system admin stuff, right? 21:40 it was posted to -board a few days ago and is attached to the agenda. 21:40 * CosmicRay actually has ;-) 21:40 bdale, yes 21:41 * Joey wonders if we actually need a resolution like 2006-06-16.dbg.1 21:41 I think admin == admin@spi-inc.org recepients 21:41 I'm ok with the notion that the VP does this, but it's not clear to me that making it part of a role like VP is better than having it be an explicit board delegation to an interested individual? 21:41 Joey, I think it will be helpful to have someone on board who can at least keep tabs on what's going on. 21:41 the VP needs to be able to step in as P when P is unavailable. 21:41 OK with the resolution here. 21:41 bdale, because the VP has no role other than to exist at the moment, so it's highly sought after. Instead of making an additional position, might as well make it this one. 21:41 I think having someone on board take responsibility for it is a plus, even if there is an actual volunteer who is doing the actual admin. 21:41 That's my thinking there. :) 21:42 ok, I understand 21:42 having the VP be the responsible individual whether doing the work or not makes sense to me 21:42 Joey, one does not preclude the other 21:42 bdale: exactly. 21:43 still not clearly the best solution, but I'm ok with it 21:43 * cdlu moves to vote 21:43 * Hydroxide pre-typed his tax filing update to save us time 21:43 this work should "somehow" be shared among P and VP imho. 21:43 bdale, resolutions can always be amended or changed in the future 21:43 * Hydroxide seconds cdlu's motion 21:43 Hydroxide: yay! Email it to us and we can read it while we wait ? 21:43 ok, Resolution 2006-06-16.dbg.1 has been moved and seconded. 21:43 Yes, let's vote on this now and we can change it later if we feel like it. 21:43 IanJackson: it's next, so if we're voting now, there's no need 21:43 is there any additional discussion? 21:43 seeing none.... 21:43 !vote start 21:43 !vote abstain 21:43 !vote yes 21:43 !vote ye 21:43 !vote yes 21:44 !vote yes 21:44 !vote yes 21:44 !vote yes 21:44 !vote abstain 21:44 Sorry to be confusing. Vote early, vote often. 21:44 !vote stop 21:44 Yes: 5, No: 0, Abstain: 2 21:44 2006-06-16.dbg.1 has passed. 21:44