21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> *GAVEL*
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of director's meeting, w
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> hich is now called to order.
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> Today's agenda can be found on the web at: http://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/agendas/2013/2013-06-13/
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 2, Roll Call]
21:05 #spi: < schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
21:05 #spi: < Solver> Robert Brockway
21:05 #spi: < Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> Board members, please state your name for the record.  As we have nine board members, quorum for today's meeting is six.
21:05 #spi: < Clint> Clint Adams
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> Guests (including board advisors), please /msg your names to Noodles if you wish your attendance to be recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
21:05 #SPI: < Noodles> Jonathan McDowell
21:06 #spi: < schultmc> linuxpoet: ping
21:06 #SPI: < Noodles> I've received regrets from Ganneff and zobel.
21:07 #spi: < linuxpoet> JOshua Drake
21:07 #spi: < Hydroxide> that's quorum!
21:07 #SPI: < Noodles> \o/
21:07 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 3, President's Report]
21:07 #SPI: < Noodles> No bdale, no report.
21:07 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 4, Treasurer's Report]
21:07 #SPI: < Noodles> Michael?
21:07 #spi: < schultmc> Standard report is in the agenda and has been e-mailed out.  Nothing of note.
21:07 #spi: < schultmc> Bookkeeping: I contacted Foster Results (local) and Human Bookkeeping (Massachusetts).  I left a message with Foster Results since I was unable to reach anyone.  
21:07 #spi: < schultmc> Human Bookkeeping got back to me and will be sending me an e-mail with more details about their services.  In short, 99% of their clients' books are done in QuickBooks but they can also use other systems if desired.  They can also provide us reports regardless of the backend bookkeeping software.  
21:07 #spi: < schultmc> Based on the estimated level of transactions, they quoted a monthly fee of roughly $479/mo with a 10% discount since we're a 501(c)(3) bringing the monthly total to $431/mo.  They can either start fresh with June's books or start from January so the entire year is on the same system.  They estimate $579 for up to 9 hours of catchup work, $379 for 6 hours of catch up work.  Any left over from the catchup fee would be applied to future mo
21:08 #SPI: < Noodles> That got cut off after "future mo".
21:08 #spi: < schultmc> uture monthly  billings.  They are fully bonded and insured.
21:08 #spi: < schultmc> </end>
21:08 #SPI: < Noodles> Any feel on how they compare to the people PostgreSQL are using?
21:08 #spi: < linuxpoet> It should be noted that 99% of all small businesses use Quickbooks
21:08 #spi: < Hydroxide> great, thanks for the information! do we have a similar quote for comparison purposes from whoever jberkus suggested, and have you had a chance to make a comparison?
21:09 #spi: < linuxpoet> PostgreSQL.US uses Alten Sakai (which is who Command Prompt's CPA is)
21:09 #spi: < schultmc> I'd like to also get a quote from foster results just for comparison
21:09 #spi: < Clint> could you explain what services would be provided?
21:09 #spi: < Solver> I was concerned about data formats but it sounds like they are preparted to work with us
21:09 #spi: < schultmc> bookkeeping and accounting
21:10 #spi: < Solver> you (or an assistant treasurer) would still approve and make payments right?
21:10 #spi: < schultmc> yes
21:11 #spi: < Solver> I'd prefer not to have to wait until next month to do approval
21:12 #SPI: < Noodles> We can vote via email if necessary. If schultmc wants to get a 3rd quote I think that's reasonable enough.
21:12 #SPI: < Noodles> As long as it doesn't delay us too long.
21:12 #spi: < schultmc> I'd expect to hear back from foster results tomorrow or Monday
21:12 #spi: < Solver> or we could pre-approve up to a certain amount?
21:12 #spi: < Hydroxide> Solver: did you want to rely on an email vote or did you want to make a motion to approve up to a certain price per month and leave it up to schultmc, with some reasonable conditions?
21:13 #spi: < Solver> yes I'd prefer to pre-approve
21:13 #spi: < linuxpoet> I would like to have an idea of Solver's data format concerns
21:13 #spi: < Hydroxide> I'd be fine approving schultmc's judgment for a fully bonded/insured bookkeeper/accountant up to 10% above the quote he just mentioned
21:13 #spi: < Hydroxide> or some other reasonable buffer for human judgment in selecting something
21:13 #spi: < Solver> linuxpoet: I was just wondering how they would cope with non-quickbooks
21:13 #spi: < linuxpoet> Solver: are we expected them not to use Quickbooks?
21:14 #spi: < Hydroxide> if you want to require non-quickbooks-friendliness as a condition, I'd be okay with that, or leaving it out for flexibility but still striving for it
21:14 #spi: < Solver> Hydroxide: I was thinking that exact figure
21:14 #spi: < Hydroxide> cool :) /me leaves any motion drafting to Solver or others here
21:14 #spi: < linuxpoet> I think we need to let them use the tool that is most appropriate
21:15 #spi:  * Hydroxide fine with not specifying it as a condition but striving for it to the extent feasible, as a non-blocker.
21:15 #spi: < Solver> I haven't done a proposal 'cold' before but I propose we approve schultmc to make an agreement with a bookkeeping firm to do 'catchup' work and proceed with month by month payments up to 10% greater than the figures schultmc quoted above
21:15 #SPI: < Noodles> FWIW the other quote was somewhere from $360 - $720/month very roughly.
21:16 #SPI: < Noodles> (It was a quote per hour with a rough guess of hours a week required.)
21:16 #spi: < schultmc> the quote was $431/mo
21:16 #spi: < schultmc> the hourly work was one time to input january - may data
21:16 #spi: < schultmc> as well as set us up in their system
21:17 #SPI: < Noodles> schultmc: For Stacey's quote?
21:17 #spi: < schultmc> Noodles: oh
21:17 #spi: < schultmc> Noodles: I was referring to the quote I just got
21:17 #SPI: < Noodles> I'm providing a comparison to this quote.
21:17 #spi: < schultmc> I didn't recall jberkus' bookkeeper's quote - thanks for providing the info
21:17 #spi: < Hydroxide> Noodles: are you suggesting different dollar thresholds then?
21:18 #SPI: < Noodles> I'm not sure I have a feel for how much it will cost or how much time it will take. The original quote seems to assume more time required, as the hourly cost is cheaper than that quoted above.
21:18 #spi: < Solver> Ok, I propose we approve schultmc to make an agreement with a bookkeeping firm to do 'catchup' work and proceed with month by month payments with a budget of $1000 for catch up and $500 per month for on-going fees
21:18 #spi: < linuxpoet> I think we are being optimistic with those numbers and we should allow for at least 2x more
21:18 #spi: < Solver> this should give plenty of flexibility
21:18 #SPI: < Noodles> I think we should wait the few days for the 3rd quote to come in so we have a better feel for the cost.
21:19 #spi: < linuxpoet> remember, these are per hour rates which means, a single question could tack on 2 hours more work
21:19 #SPI: < Noodles> If we contrain schultmc to $500 and it turns out 2 of the 3 quotes are more than I don't feel we should be picking purely on cost.
21:19 #spi: < Clint> so none of these options are flat monthly fee?
21:19 #spi: < schultmc> the $431/mo fee is a flat rate based on up to 1000 transactions per month
21:20 #spi: < Clint> ok
21:20 #spi: < schultmc> the hourly fee was for setup and importing past data
21:20 #spi: < Solver> how many tranactions do we do now?
21:20 #spi: < Solver> (roughly)
21:20 #spi: < schultmc> under 1000 - roughly 500 I'd estimate
21:20 #spi: < schultmc> I estimated high for the quote
21:20 #spi: < Solver> thanks
21:20 #spi: < Solver> good idea
21:20 #spi: < Hydroxide> Do we want to say $750/month as a monthly max but encourage schultmc to save money if it won't cut value? I mean, hopefully it'll be either be a lower flat fee or lower every month we don't have something complicated, but it's worth paying for something that will do the job here
21:21 #spi: < Solver> If Noodles wants to wait for the quote I'm happy to proceed with an email vote.  I just don't want us to wait another month
21:21 #spi: < linuxpoet> Does the flat fee include any consulting? That is where my concern is, when transaction 432 doesn't make sense and you are on the phone for 2 hours, and then they dig for an hour and then there is another 1 hour call
21:21 #spi: < linuxpoet> that is 4 hours extra
21:21 #spi: < schultmc> I don't know - we can certainly ask before committing to anything
21:22 #SPI: < Noodles> schultmc: What would you prefer? Do you think that if we approve you up to $750 you'll have a good feel for who you want to use within the next week?
21:22 #SPI: < Noodles> Or would you rather collect the info and make a concrete proposal for us to approve?
21:22 #spi: < linuxpoet> schultmc: to give you a correlation, CMD pays about 20k a year in total for CPA + Internal book keeper. Granted we are doing a lot more than SPI, but even when we were much smaller we allocated 6k a year minimum and we were still doing our own books
21:23 #spi: < schultmc> Noodles: yes, assuming we hear back from the third option.
21:23 #spi: < Hydroxide> ok, if we're actually going to do the email vote quite soon AND believe unanimity can be achieved (required), we can do that, but I share Solver's concern about this getting delayed for a month by default.
21:23 #spi: < schultmc> linuxpoet: thanks for the data
21:23 #spi: < Hydroxide> so voting now seems preferable. keep in mind nothing forces schultmc to proceed without a vote, it just authorizes him to do so
21:23 #SPI: < Noodles> I'm fine with voting as schultmc thinks we're close to an answer.
21:24 #spi: < Hydroxide> he's the treasurer, some discretion in these matters is common for treasurers
21:24 #spi: < Hydroxide> not everything needs to be fully concrete in front of a board vote :)
21:24 #SPI: < Noodles> What's the wording? "Authorize the treasurer to commit to expendature of up to $1500 catch up, $750 monthly to cover hiring a bookkeper to aide in the treasurer's duties"?
21:24 #spi: < linuxpoet> Hydroxide: very true, this is really an operational thing, I am surprised we are holding a vote
21:25 #spi: < Clint> we may have already authorized this previously
21:25 #spi: < Hydroxide> Noodles: sounds good to me. s/aide/aid/ (grammar) and maybe add "fully bonded and insured"
21:25 #spi: < Hydroxide> Clint: entirely possible. :) probably with lower thresholds though, if I remember right
21:26 #spi: < Hydroxide> Clint: I think $500/month and good arguments were just made that it's too low as a hard maximum (likely good as a goal), plus doesn't handled catch-up
21:26 #spi: < Hydroxide> -d
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> Voting started, 6 people (schultmc,solver,hydroxide,clint,noodles,linuxpoet) allowed to vote on Authorize the treasurer to commit to expenditure of up to $1500 catch up, $750 monthly to cover hiring a fully bonded and insured bookkeper to aid in the treasurer's duties. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
21:26 #spi: < Hydroxide> !vote yes
21:26 #spi: < Clint> !vote yes
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> !vote yes
21:26 #spi: < schultmc> !vote yes
21:26 #spi: < Solver> !vote yes
21:26 #spi: < linuxpoet> !vote yes
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> Current voting results for "Authorize the treasurer to commit to expenditure of up to $1500 catch up, $750 monthly to cover hiring a fully bonded and insured bookkeper to aid in the treasurer's duties": Yes: 6, No: 0, Abstain: 0, Missing: 0 ()
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> Voting for "Authorize the treasurer to commit to expenditure of up to $1500 catch up, $750 monthly to cover hiring a fully bonded and insured bookkeper to aid in the treasurer's duties" closed.
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> Excellent.
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> Moving on...
21:26 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 5, Secretary's report]
21:27 #SPI: < Noodles> MinGW accepted our invitation to become an associated project. I've added them to the list on the website.
21:27 #spi: < Hydroxide> linuxpoet: we've never gotten in the habit of having officers do as much as our bylaws probably allow without a vote, even though we should. not worth continued discussion during the meeting though.
21:27 #spi:  * Hydroxide shuts up :)
21:27 #spi: < Solver> :)
21:27 #SPI: < Noodles> We have an outstanding mail from Swathanthra Malayalam Computing (http://smc.org.in) about becoming an associated project.
21:27 #SPI: < Noodles> I don't know anything about them to be honest.
21:27 #SPI: < Noodles> But I'll try to reply in the next few days as it's been sitting around on board@ for a while now.
21:28 #SPI: < Noodles> Also next month we have an election, with 4 of the board up for re-election if I recall correctly.
21:28 #spi: < linuxpoet> Noodles: Am I on that list (of re-election?)
21:29 #SPI: < Noodles> bdale, Ganneff, linuxpoet & zobel.
21:29 #spi: < linuxpoet> yep
21:29 #SPI: < Noodles> Nothing else from me this month.
21:29 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 6, Outstanding minutes]
21:29 #SPI: < Noodles> One set of minutes to vote on, from last month.
21:29 #spi: < Hydroxide> are we all set up to run the election, btw?
21:30 #SPI: < Noodles> Voting started, 6 people (schultmc,solver,hydroxide,clint,noodles,linuxpoet) allowed to vote on Meeting minutes for 2013-05-09 board meeting. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
21:30 #spi: < schultmc> !vote yes
21:30 #SPI: < Noodles> !vote yes
21:30 #spi: < Hydroxide> !vote abstain
21:30 #spi: < Clint> !vote yes
21:30 #spi: < Solver> !vote yes
21:30 #spi: < Hydroxide> (abstaining since I missed most of the meeting including all votes)
21:30 #SPI: < Noodles> linuxpoet?
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> schultmc: I need to check the machinery works after the members move, but assuming so we should be.
21:31 #spi: < linuxpoet> !vote yes
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> Sorry, s/schultmc/Hydroxide/
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> Current voting results for "Meeting minutes for 2013-05-09 board meeting": Yes: 5, No: 0, Abstain: 1, Missing: 0 ()
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> Voting for "Meeting minutes for 2013-05-09 board meeting" closed.
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 7, Items up for discussion]
21:31 #spi: < Hydroxide> Noodles: cool
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> Don't think we have anything here this month.
21:31 #spi: < Solver> one items for other business
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> Just getting to that...
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 8, Any other business]
21:31 #SPI: < Noodles> Go ahead.
21:32 #spi: < Solver> the last bit of the debian audit is still hanging around
21:32 #spi: < Solver> It's a bit unclear to me what we need to do so I've asked debian for clarification on what transactions (defined by dates) they don't have
21:33 #spi: < Solver> I'm hoping zobel can provide scanned copies of the hand written work he did
21:34 #spi: < Solver> that's all I have
21:34 #spi: < lucas> hi. I just answered via email. According to the mails I saw, the handwriting was on the bank listings?
21:34 #spi: < Solver> ok thanks.  I looked through but didn't see the stuff.  If I don't have it i'll ping you.
21:35 #SPI: < Noodles> Anything else?
21:35 #spi: < Hydroxide> is jberkus here?
21:35 #spi: < Hydroxide> he was driving forward the SFC donation IIRC
21:36 #spi: < Hydroxide> if he's not here, nothing else from me
21:36 #spi: < Hydroxide> if he is, just wondering status.
21:36 #SPI: < Noodles> I've not seen anything more about that since last month's meeting.
21:36 #spi: < Solver> same
21:36 #spi: < schultmc>  /me forgot to mention explicitly that libreoffice donated $500 to SFC for the accounting fundraiser
21:37 #spi: < Solver> excellent
21:37 #SPI: < Noodles> [item 9, Next board meeting]
21:37 #SPI: < Noodles> July 11th, 2013, 20:00 UTC would seem to be the next according to our current schedule.
21:37 #spi: < Solver> no objection here
21:38 #spi: < linuxpoet> no objection here
21:38 #spi: < Hydroxide> I'll be on a work trip, so my attendance depends on schedule there
21:38 #spi: < Hydroxide> but it might be fine
21:38 #spi: < Hydroxide> no reason to reschedule, at least
21:38 #SPI: < Noodles> Ok.
21:38 #SPI: < Noodles> In that case:
21:39 #SPI: < Noodles> *GAVEL*