2025-09-08 20:03:26	schultmc	*GAVEL*
2025-09-08 20:03:26	schultmc	[item 1, Opening]
2025-09-08 20:03:26	schultmc	Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest Board Meeting, which 
2025-09-08 20:03:26	schultmc	is now called to order. Today's agenda can be found on the web at: 
2025-09-08 20:03:26	schultmc	https://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/agendas/2025/2025-09-08/
2025-09-08 20:03:28	schultmc	[item 2, Roll Call]
2025-09-08 20:03:31	schultmc	Directors, please state your name
2025-09-08 20:03:33	schultmc	Guests, please /msg your names to fungi if you wish your attendance to be
2025-09-08 20:03:36	schultmc	recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
2025-09-08 20:03:38	schultmc	.
2025-09-08 20:03:39	fungi	Jeremy Stanley
2025-09-08 20:03:41	milan	Milan Kupcevic
2025-09-08 20:03:41	schultmc	Michael Schultheiss
2025-09-08 20:03:45	mappx	Katie McMillan
2025-09-08 20:04:37	schultmc	borden: please state your name for the record
2025-09-08 20:04:46	schultmc	zumbi: ping
2025-09-08 20:04:50	schultmc	Jesusalva[m]: ping
2025-09-08 20:04:52	borden	Borden Rhodes
2025-09-08 20:04:58	borden	sorry, juggling meetings
2025-09-08 20:05:09	zumbi	Héctor Orón Martínez
2025-09-08 20:05:19	schultmc	no problem - we just became quorate
2025-09-08 20:05:33	Jesusalva[m]	Jonatas Luis Nogueira 
2025-09-08 20:05:37	schultmc	[item 3, President's Report]
2025-09-08 20:05:37	schultmc	Martin, Héctor and I have been working with our auditor to get our 2024
2025-09-08 20:05:37	schultmc	financial statements audited. We are also working with the auditing firm
2025-09-08 20:05:37	schultmc	on filing our New York State and Federal annual filings. We have received
2025-09-08 20:05:37	schultmc	a 6 month extension for the time to file and are confident the filings will
2025-09-08 20:05:40	schultmc	be completed by the November 15, 2025 deadline.
2025-09-08 20:05:42	schultmc	.
2025-09-08 20:05:45	schultmc	I've worked with our insurance broker to update our general liability
2025-09-08 20:05:47	schultmc	policy and am working with our associated projects and their conference
2025-09-08 20:05:50	schultmc	vendors to assure the necessary insurance clauses are in place for
2025-09-08 20:05:52	schultmc	upcoming conferences.
2025-09-08 20:05:55	schultmc	</done>
2025-09-08 20:05:57	schultmc	Jesusalva[m]: anthing to add?
2025-09-08 20:06:30	Jesusalva[m]	I couldn't complete my report in time. Things keep getting done, although some curveballs were thrown (eg. STF contract will need additional effort)
2025-09-08 20:06:49	schultmc	[item 4, Treasurer's Report]
2025-09-08 20:06:51	schultmc	zumbi?
2025-09-08 20:07:30	zumbi	I'll report over email.
2025-09-08 20:07:40	schultmc	[item 5, Secretary's report]
2025-09-08 20:07:41	schultmc	fungi?
2025-09-08 20:07:45	fungi	before my report, for the sake of the attendance log i received regrets from Joe Conway and Forrest Fleming
2025-09-08 20:07:50	zumbi	Nothing special, I am somehow busy and I cannot report right now.
2025-09-08 20:07:57	fungi	[report follows]
2025-09-08 20:08:06	fungi	First, this is a gentle reminder to directors to complete your 2025 conflict of interest forms and send them to the secretary address, please. In reviewing the inbox I found only forms for Jonatas, Borden and myself, so am still missing them for the other two thirds of you.
2025-09-08 20:08:07	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:08:12	fungi	I've nearly caught up on the existing backlog for publication of provisional boa
2025-09-08 20:08:12	fungi	rd meeting minutes. We should hopefully be able to vote today on April through July. August's minutes are not ready yet, though the logs for that meeting are pu
2025-09-08 20:08:12	fungi	blished at least.
2025-09-08 20:08:15	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:08:22	fungi	After Célestin got me access to the secretary inbox (thanks!) I proceeded to cle
2025-09-08 20:08:22	fungi	ar out the volumes of spam from 2025 in order to make it easier to spot signal i
2025-09-08 20:08:22	fungi	n the noise and make sure I wasn't overlooking anything obvious (like more CoI f
2025-09-08 20:08:22	fungi	orms).
2025-09-08 20:08:44	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:08:45	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:08:46	fungi	Once I'm caught up on the meeting backlog, I'm going to look into some things that the Secretary Assistants and/or Communication Committee could do to share some of the load for that as well as hopefully get some of the tasks that can be done ahead of the meetings completed more in advance.
2025-09-08 20:08:54	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:08:59	fungi	I'm not really adept at organizing in-person meetings involving travel, so this is not really on my radar yet but is something I would look to delegate and get some help with when time allows.
2025-09-08 20:09:11	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:09:13	fungi	If anybody can think of anything else I should be working on as Secretary, please let me know, and apologies for anything I'm missing so far as this is all rather new to me still.
2025-09-08 20:09:15	fungi	.
2025-09-08 20:09:21	fungi	Also just as a reminder, spending my time on this means effort I was putting into evaluating project association requests as well as Membership Committee activities like processing Contributing Member applications have fallen by the wayside and could use more volunteers to pick up the slack.
2025-09-08 20:09:37	fungi	</done> (also sorry for the stray newlines in the first few entries)
2025-09-08 20:10:03	zumbi	fungi, happy to help with travel planning
2025-09-08 20:11:01	borden	Sorry I have to tap out of this meeting... I'll stay on and vote if you need quorum. Just poke me.
2025-09-08 20:11:23	schultmc	[item 6, Outstanding minutes]
2025-09-08 20:11:23	schultmc	The minutes for 2025-04-14
2025-09-08 20:11:23	schultmc	https://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/minutes/2025/2025-04-14/
2025-09-08 20:11:23	schultmc	2025-05-12
2025-09-08 20:11:23	schultmc	https://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/minutes/2025/2025-05-12/
2025-09-08 20:11:25	schultmc	2025-06-09
2025-09-08 20:11:28	schultmc	https://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/minutes/2025/2025-06-09/
2025-09-08 20:11:30	schultmc	and 2025-07-14 need approval and are ready for voting today.
2025-09-08 20:11:33	schultmc	https://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/minutes/2025/2025-07-14/
2025-09-08 20:11:35	schultmc	2025-08-11 minutes are not yet published
2025-09-08 20:12:16	fungi	please note that a few of them have todo items
2025-09-08 20:12:20	Jesusalva[m]	I've finished handling out CM, but some had insufficient information and were not approved 
2025-09-08 20:12:49	fungi	schultmc: the president's report for april was truncated in irc, so if you have a full copy somewhere i can amend the minutes
2025-09-08 20:13:04	schultmc	fungi: yes, I'll get it to you
2025-09-08 20:13:24	fungi	thanks! also april and july may have had additional registered guests, i'll try to see if zv has a record of them
2025-09-08 20:13:47	fungi	otherwise i believe the april through july minutes to be as complete as i can make them
2025-09-08 20:14:45	fungi	also i don't have a vote tabulator set up yet, i know fsf typically fills in there but as he's absent, can someone else arrange it this time?
2025-09-08 20:15:31	schultmc	I don't have the vote bot - I've manually done votes before and we've hand tabulated them
2025-09-08 20:15:56	fungi	i can copy-paste from a prior one too
2025-09-08 20:16:33	fungi	should we have four separate votes or vote on the set of minutes as a unit?
2025-09-08 20:16:55	schultmc	probably 4 separate in case people weren't in attendance at some
2025-09-08 20:17:06	fungi	aha, right
2025-09-08 20:17:33	fungi	working on it, apologies
2025-09-08 20:17:52	Jesusalva[m]	Also, I could only finish reading first one
2025-09-08 20:17:58	Jesusalva[m]	So I'll abstain on the other three
2025-09-08 20:19:12	fungi	Voting started, 7 people (Jesusalva[m],mappx,milan,schultmc,zumbi,borden,fungi) allowed to vote on Meeting minutes for Monday 14 April 2025. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
2025-09-08 20:19:22	schultmc	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:19:31	fungi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:19:44	zumbi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:19:46	mappx	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:19:54	Jesusalva[m]	!vote yes 
2025-09-08 20:20:12	milan	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:20:47	fungi	borden?
2025-09-08 20:22:08	fungi	Current voting results for "Meeting minutes for Monday 14 April 2025": Yes: 6, No: 0, Abstain: 0, Missing: 1 ( borden )
2025-09-08 20:22:35	fungi	Voting started, 7 people (Jesusalva[m],mappx,milan,schultmc,zumbi,borden,fungi) allowed to vote on Meeting minutes for Monday 12 May 2025. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
2025-09-08 20:22:41	schultmc	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:22:44	zumbi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:22:46	mappx	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:22:51	fungi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:23:10	milan	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:24:46	fungi	Jesusalva[m]? borden?
2025-09-08 20:25:46	mappx	I think that Jesusalva is abstaining
2025-09-08 20:26:26	fungi	that was the impression i got, but want to make sure he can record his vote
2025-09-08 20:26:26	Jesusalva[m]	Yes
2025-09-08 20:26:31	fungi	aha, thanks
2025-09-08 20:26:31	Jesusalva[m]	I abstain on the other three
2025-09-08 20:26:35	fungi	noted
2025-09-08 20:26:45	fungi	well, other two
2025-09-08 20:27:13	fungi	Current voting results for "Meeting minutes for Monday 12 May 2025": Yes: 6, No: 0, Abstain: 0, Missing: 1 (borden)
2025-09-08 20:27:16	borden	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:27:20	borden	(sorry)
2025-09-08 20:27:31	fungi	i'll amend the record to show you voted in the affirmative
2025-09-08 20:27:57	borden	not necessary, but appreciated
2025-09-08 20:28:04	fungi	though note that the meeting was before you were a director, so not sure if you were present for it
2025-09-08 20:28:41	fungi	Voting started, 7 people (Jesusalva[m],mappx,milan,schultmc,zumbi,borden,fungi) allowed to vote on Meeting minutes for Monday 9 June 2025. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
2025-09-08 20:28:47	zumbi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:28:54	schultmc	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:28:55	fungi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:28:56	mappx	!vote yes 
2025-09-08 20:29:07	milan	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:30:12	zumbi	borden and others, just for your consideration, when director is not available at a meeting, usual vote is abstain, which does not mean it needs to be followed, but that's the common practice
2025-09-08 20:31:00	fungi	Current voting results for "Meeting minutes for Monday 9 June 2025": Yes: 5, No: 0, Abstain: 1, Missing: 1 ( borden )
2025-09-08 20:31:20	fungi	Voting started, 7 people (Jesusalva[m],mappx,milan,schultmc,zumbi,borden,fungi) allowed to vote on Meeting minutes for Monday 14 July 2025. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
2025-09-08 20:31:44	milan	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:31:45	mappx	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:31:46	fungi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:31:51	Jesusalva[m]	Missing technically is inquorate abstain zv
2025-09-08 20:32:11	Jesusalva[m]	I'm not missing, just... Busy IRL
2025-09-08 20:32:31	schultmc	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:33:17	zumbi	!vote yes
2025-09-08 20:33:30	fungi	Current voting results for "Meeting minutes for Monday 14 July 2025": Yes: 5, No: 0, Abstain: 1, Missing: 1 ( borden )
2025-09-08 20:33:42	Jesusalva[m]	So if I can save the effort of typing my abstention, it's appreciated 
2025-09-08 20:34:02	borden	!vote yes, if necessary
2025-09-08 20:34:18	fungi	i'll endeavor to have the august minutes along with today's up very soon
2025-09-08 20:34:31	fungi	i didn't have anything else about the minutes for now, unless there were questions
2025-09-08 20:35:42	schultmc	[item 7, Items up for discussion]
2025-09-08 20:35:42	schultmc	[item 7.1, Copyright notice on website]
2025-09-08 20:35:56	fungi	Perdu requested this discussion
2025-09-08 20:36:42	Perdu	Yes, basically bringing this to a board meeting as the ticket is stuck and I got very few responses
2025-09-08 20:36:55	Perdu	There's been a debate on #15925 regarding what to do with the copyright notice on all pages of the website. Historically, it's been updated quite erratically and this is a problem (a project member said it looked like the website wasn't being updated).
2025-09-08 20:36:57	Perdu	The three possibilities are:
2025-09-08 20:36:59	Perdu	- update everything to current year on the beginning of each year. This is a matter of a single sed and I already did that (this can be reverted easily) but there's still some debate on whether it's the best solution
2025-09-08 20:37:01	Perdu	- remove copyright notice altogether
2025-09-08 20:37:03	Perdu	- make a script to have starting and end date to automatically match modification dates according to git history. This should be easy to do and can be automated for future pages updates with a CI script
2025-09-08 20:37:33	Perdu	Also, just saw that the blog that I linked said to just use the document creation date and not update it further (I don't know the rationale for this one)
2025-09-08 20:37:44	fungi	having a copyright notice i think is necessary since we declare the content to be under a copyright license, especially one which requires attribution
2025-09-08 20:38:24	zumbi	I like third option, but not opposed to first one.
2025-09-08 20:38:26	fungi	though i've seen a lot of guidance in recent years that copyright *dates* can be omitted entirely and still be valid
2025-09-08 20:39:15	borden	I think it depends no jurisdiction. In some areas, copyright is default unless stated otherwise. In other jurisdictions, it must be explicit. I think the US changed sometime in the 1970s from explicit to implicit.
2025-09-08 20:39:18	zumbi	second option should probably be ruled out
2025-09-08 20:39:35	fungi	i'm aware of a number of large open source projects that have stopped recommending the year in their copyright statements on files in order to avoid lots of unnecessary additional edits
2025-09-08 20:41:46	fungi	borden: yeah, i agree a copyright notice isn't necessary in order for a work to be protected by copyright (at least in jurisdictions which follow berne and buenos aires conventions), my point in this case is that we declare cc-by 3.0 on the content
2025-09-08 20:42:32	fungi	so seems sort of counter-productive to list a copyright license that requires attribution but not have the copyright itself declared
2025-09-08 20:42:37	schultmc	It might be worthwhile to ask our legal counsel
2025-09-08 20:43:03	fungi	i concur, i expect they get questions like (or identical to) this constantly
2025-09-08 20:43:14	fungi	they probably have a cut-and-paste response
2025-09-08 20:43:18	mappx	+1 for checking with legal counsel
2025-09-08 20:44:43	Jesusalva[m]	Hi 
2025-09-08 20:44:47	fungi	my personal preference would be to drop the date from the existing copyright statements, especially since we list a "last edited" date right under it
2025-09-08 20:44:49	Perdu	Digging on the rationale developed here: https://liferay.dev/blogs/-/blogs/how-and-why-to-properly-write-copyright-statements-in-your-code#why-not-bump-the-year-on-change -> Edits are not always substantial enough to trigger a copyright change, and since copyright is attributed for 50+ years, it's not worth the trouble anyway
2025-09-08 20:45:40	Perdu	(edits are not substantial enough, meaning that you have to decide whether it's worth bumping the date everytime)
2025-09-08 20:46:39	Jesusalva[m]	That's erratic ^
2025-09-08 20:47:24	Perdu	So... Not sure putting current year is actually valid
2025-09-08 20:47:58	Jesusalva[m]	Putting only creation year does make sense 
2025-09-08 20:48:06	fungi	right, that's part of the rationale a lot of orgs have for no longer mandating a year in their copyright statements at all
2025-09-08 20:48:11	Jesusalva[m]	Or the date of any full rewrite 
2025-09-08 20:48:27	Jesusalva[m]	GPL in particular demands the year
2025-09-08 20:50:07	fungi	i'm not finding anything to back up that assertion, only example templates that include a year field
2025-09-08 20:50:54	fungi	the gnu.org faq template description even seems to indicate years and copyright holder are optional
2025-09-08 20:51:44	Jesusalva[m]	GPL2 I think 
2025-09-08 20:51:51	Jesusalva[m]	I might be wrong, anyway 
2025-09-08 20:52:40	fungi	yeah, it's a reason to check whatever we want to do with counsel
2025-09-08 20:53:49	schultmc	[item 8, Any other business]
2025-09-08 20:53:51	schultmc	Anything to discuss?
2025-09-08 20:54:07	Jesusalva[m]	The thing I mentioned earlier 
2025-09-08 20:54:09	fungi	Jesusalva[m] had a late addition to the topics list in the agenda
2025-09-08 20:54:25	fungi	(i pushed that edit shortly before the meeting)
2025-09-08 20:55:01	schultmc	ah - sorry I only went off the numbered agenda items when making my script
2025-09-08 20:55:06	schultmc	Jesusalva[m]: please go ahead
2025-09-08 20:55:35	fungi	(oops! i missed addit it to the numbered items, mea culpa)
2025-09-08 20:58:10	Jesusalva[m]	Can you help me here
2025-09-08 20:58:18	Jesusalva[m]	From phone it's hard to repeat myself 
2025-09-08 20:58:54	fungi	Jesusalva[m]: suggested we should consider paying a contractor for mapping out SPI processes and documentation
2025-09-08 20:59:41	fungi	complementing fixing updating and consolidating as necessary
2025-09-08 21:00:04	fungi	thinks he can source someone for around 40usd/hr with a completion of the end of this calendar year
2025-09-08 21:00:42	fungi	does that adequately capture it?
2025-09-08 21:00:58	Jesusalva[m]	To make it clear, I'll do it in the usual fashion of announcing publicly and asking people to submit their proposals by email 
2025-09-08 21:00:59	schultmc	$40/hr for how many hours per week/month?
2025-09-08 21:02:09	Jesusalva[m]	I would like the board to set a cap, but I'm thinking 50 hours total or so
2025-09-08 21:02:57	schultmc	sounds reasonable and beneficial if we can find a contractor
2025-09-08 21:03:21	borden	Sorry, I have to AFK from the meeting. Do you still have quorum without me?
2025-09-08 21:04:16	schultmc	borden: we're nearly done with the agenda and should still be quorate. Thank you for your participation today.
2025-09-08 21:04:24	borden	Sorry again about today. I won't make it a habit. Work at the last minute changed an appointment time on me to coincide with this meeting, even though I explicitly set it up to avoid the conflict
2025-09-08 21:04:41	borden	much obliged. See you on Gmail
2025-09-08 21:04:44	<--	borden (~borden@99.209.53.2) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2025-09-08 21:04:52	mappx	50 hours at $40/hour seems reasonable to me
2025-09-08 21:05:21	fungi	Jesusalva[m]: are you planning to put together a more concrete proposal by e-mail to the board list?
2025-09-08 21:05:53	fungi	i support the idea in general, but details will matter i'm sure
2025-09-08 21:09:05	Jesusalva[m]	Yes, I plan in at least asking them to submit a SOW and sharing it
2025-09-08 21:09:42	fungi	sounds worth evaluating at least
2025-09-08 21:10:33	schultmc	[item 9, Next board meeting]
2025-09-08 21:10:33	schultmc	The next board meeting is scheduled for: October 13, 2025 at 2000 UTC.
2025-09-08 21:10:34	schultmc	Any objections?
2025-09-08 21:10:41	schultmc	wfm
2025-09-08 21:10:44	milan	WFM
2025-09-08 21:10:44	fungi	i'll be at the all things open conference in raleigh but should be able to find a quiet spot
2025-09-08 21:11:09	fungi	(though if anybody else is going to be there, hit me up and i'm happy to meet folks in person)
2025-09-08 21:11:46	zumbi	I might not be able to attend, I'll be travelling that day
2025-09-08 21:13:43	schultmc	*GAVEL*